If you discovered how to do it what would you then do? I believe the gvt would declare your invention to be of national security and you would go to prison if you even talk about it. Many powerful people would see their interests severely damaged by your invention and they are the people who run the show. How could you get your invention out to the public and hopefully make a buck and more importantly not go to jail or have an "accident"?
Thanks
Kirk
What would you do, really.
Moderator: scott
What would you do, really.
Not knowing is not the problem. It is the knowing of what just isn't so.
It is our responsibilities, not ourselves,that we should take seriously.
It is our responsibilities, not ourselves,that we should take seriously.
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coylo
re: What would you do, really.
Good question. A question that I try not to let my mind get carried away with, because I want to build a working model first, then worry about such issues later.
You could just give away your idea as a gift to the world - unpatented......yeah right!.......and see how far James Randi's and Eric the skeptic's proof money gets ya.
Or you could if your idea turned out to be practical enough, just keep it a secret with the ambitous idea of starting up your own electricity company. Leaving authorities wondering how you generate your electricity, although you would have to completely trust in the people you put around you.
...laterman
You could just give away your idea as a gift to the world - unpatented......yeah right!.......and see how far James Randi's and Eric the skeptic's proof money gets ya.
Or you could if your idea turned out to be practical enough, just keep it a secret with the ambitous idea of starting up your own electricity company. Leaving authorities wondering how you generate your electricity, although you would have to completely trust in the people you put around you.
...laterman
re: What would you do, really.
The 'PLAN'... (I posted this a while back.)
A] First get something that works!!!
B] Take steps to insure the idea survives in case of calamity.
C] Define the principle or the reason why it works!
D] Design a simple cheap working POP (proof of principle) sample model.
F] Build as many of these models as money/time/reasoning suggest.
G] Plan Ad campaign, including literature, web space, documentation, etc.
H] Write patent applications for most major countries.
I] Prepare a list of names, addresses of who is to receive what.
J] Always continue research into increasing power output and alternate designs.
K] Load up on liability and life insurance.
L] When all is prepared, file patents, upload web site, mail plans, ship models, etc. Hit the media hard! Make a sensation! Be on the evening news worldwide.
Do what needs to be done to keep those in power from suppressing your invention. It is much harder to put the genie back into the bottle after everyone has seen it. They move slow. You must move fast. The window of opportunity is between when the PTO receives your application and when someone reviewing it realizes what your invention realy does.
Just my humble opinion.
A] First get something that works!!!
B] Take steps to insure the idea survives in case of calamity.
C] Define the principle or the reason why it works!
D] Design a simple cheap working POP (proof of principle) sample model.
F] Build as many of these models as money/time/reasoning suggest.
G] Plan Ad campaign, including literature, web space, documentation, etc.
H] Write patent applications for most major countries.
I] Prepare a list of names, addresses of who is to receive what.
J] Always continue research into increasing power output and alternate designs.
K] Load up on liability and life insurance.
L] When all is prepared, file patents, upload web site, mail plans, ship models, etc. Hit the media hard! Make a sensation! Be on the evening news worldwide.
Do what needs to be done to keep those in power from suppressing your invention. It is much harder to put the genie back into the bottle after everyone has seen it. They move slow. You must move fast. The window of opportunity is between when the PTO receives your application and when someone reviewing it realizes what your invention realy does.
Just my humble opinion.
re: What would you do, really.
Your plan seems workable. I wonder how much dissemination is practical without patents though. I think in the US if you disclose before the patent office acknowledges you have one in process -- ie pending, you have lost protection. Also since they won't consider the patent without a working model I think you would only have 1 day to disseminate.
A million dollars isn't much these days but perhaps that and the news rights is all you will get. That is what Randi gets for his million. I don't know if he gets exclusive rights but news rights is what he wants. I suspect they are worth 5 times that.
I notice over 100 views on this thread but only 2 posts. What's with that? I'm serious as a heart attack. What do you do with your creation?
Kirk
A million dollars isn't much these days but perhaps that and the news rights is all you will get. That is what Randi gets for his million. I don't know if he gets exclusive rights but news rights is what he wants. I suspect they are worth 5 times that.
I notice over 100 views on this thread but only 2 posts. What's with that? I'm serious as a heart attack. What do you do with your creation?
Kirk
Not knowing is not the problem. It is the knowing of what just isn't so.
It is our responsibilities, not ourselves,that we should take seriously.
It is our responsibilities, not ourselves,that we should take seriously.
re: What would you do, really.
When you send your patent application, you include a self addressed post card. The patent office clerk stamps the card and mails it back to you. This is your proof that they received your application. Then the application gets assigned to an examiner. If the examiner thinks the invention is a national security risk, he/she forwards a copy to others and can cause the patent to be suppressed. I also think you can hand deliver your patent and get a receipt?
The window of opportunity is after you recieve the receipt and before they notify you that your patent poses a national security risk and you risk jail time if you disclose it to anyone.
The window of opportunity is after you recieve the receipt and before they notify you that your patent poses a national security risk and you risk jail time if you disclose it to anyone.
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John Collins
- Addict
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- Contact:
re: What would you do, really.
What would I do? I wouldn't bother to patent it for a start. Why patent it? There so many ways around a patent you'd be spending most of your time and money sueing for infringements - and in any case I couldn't afford a world wide patent anyway.
There are loads of other avenues for fame and fortune if you discover the solution - don't waste your time patenting it. Get the solution out into the open - once its out no one can put it back in the bottle. You can't undiscover the solution, once two people know the solution it is inevitable that everone will find out, and quickly.
Forget the sinister government assassins and all the other conspiracies, the oil companies are desperate for an alternative to burning oil.
Just an opinion.
John
There are loads of other avenues for fame and fortune if you discover the solution - don't waste your time patenting it. Get the solution out into the open - once its out no one can put it back in the bottle. You can't undiscover the solution, once two people know the solution it is inevitable that everone will find out, and quickly.
Forget the sinister government assassins and all the other conspiracies, the oil companies are desperate for an alternative to burning oil.
Just an opinion.
John
re: What would you do, really.
Just that it would be nice to have money for a change. To have steak and macaroni without the macaroni. :)
Other than that your comment about patents is quite right. Look at the inventor of the superheterodyne circuit for example. I thinkhis name was Armstrong.
Other than that your comment about patents is quite right. Look at the inventor of the superheterodyne circuit for example. I thinkhis name was Armstrong.
Not knowing is not the problem. It is the knowing of what just isn't so.
It is our responsibilities, not ourselves,that we should take seriously.
It is our responsibilities, not ourselves,that we should take seriously.
Re: re: What would you do, really.
The post card applies to Disclosure Document Deposit Request PTO/SB/95 $10.00 . When you apply for a Provisional Application For Patent Cover Sheet PTO/SB/16 $80.00 you are instructed to send it via express mail if not in person. The latter gives you a pending status for one year and allows you to shop the product before making the more costly patent investment, professional drawings, lawyer etc.When you send your patent application, you include a self addressed post card. The patent office clerk stamps the card and mails it back to you.
Securing a patent is a smart thing because even if you could not patent it world wide or litigate if someone were to start production you still have the patent naming you as inventor. This will at the very least gain you the riches of writing a book or news rights. I'm quite sure though that an honest company will buy the patent or seek to have it assigned as a license even if only as an investment to litigate against another.
As far as suppression. I don't believe it exsist.
This applies to the United States PTO
re: What would you do, really.
Give it away as widely and quickly as you can, that way you dont wind up just another dead name in the history of free energy.
re: What would you do, really.
Unfortnately John I disagree, oil companies are looking for an alternative only if they can get the profits. I know of several energy saving devices that saved oil that they were not interested in because it didn't put the profit in the hands of the oil companies.
If I had such a device I would market it as a energy saving device first and after it was mass marketed I would point out that it doesn't need any other enegy source. Example, market a gas powered generator with an "energy saving wheel". After you sell a million or so, market it as not needing the gas engine. Then you will get the attention, but the genie is out of the bottle by then.
If I had such a device I would market it as a energy saving device first and after it was mass marketed I would point out that it doesn't need any other enegy source. Example, market a gas powered generator with an "energy saving wheel". After you sell a million or so, market it as not needing the gas engine. Then you will get the attention, but the genie is out of the bottle by then.
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coylo
re: What would you do, really.
Part of me is inclined to agree with Trev. I would not want to be consumed with greed and be involved in endless costly patent disputes. It's a shame that Bessler denied himself a place in history. I would'nt want to share the same fate.........so just let it go and become immortal.
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John Lindsay
- Enthusiast
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2003 8:20 pm
- Location: St. Louis, Missouri
re: What would you do, really.
Aside from what an individual decides about patents and anxiety over what interested parties might think of whatever mechanism you come up with, I think a good idea will be one of those short videos that I have seen for various things on the web. All you would need is about 10 seconds. A gravity wheel with a straight-forward and easily understandable concept in action that anyone can see and grasp in short order would be the best. "Wow! So Thats' how you can do it!" This should fascilitate a "belief system" adjustment. Just send a link to the appropriate people that will pass it on and it should spread pretty quickly. A lot of people will find this very interesting. Perhaps someone in our group knows of the particulars of cost of set-up, how many people can log on to this without it overloading and so on? Scott, can you handle something like this through your website? John
re: What would you do, really.
I would send a complete write-up on how to build a working wheel to the world via the internet with the faith that good karma is returned eventually. Other people could further develop the wheel based on the original working principle and make money on it and I would applaud them for their efforts. I don't have the money for a patent or its protection and do not want to be tied up in litigation and other headaches, and such a world-class invention is important enough to be public domain from the start, IMHO. There would be no question as to who the inventor was, either, thanks to the internet. That's my opinion.
Jeff L.
Jeff L.
re: What would you do, really.
My reason for a patent would be to prevent some big corporation from getting a patent then locking it away for years. I would want many companies producing the device. Competition is good.
Another reason is disclosure. A well written patent should show how and why the device works so anyone with reasonable skills can reproduce it.
The ad campaign should spread the idea fast. Many will refuse to believe. But with working reproducable models, videos, animations, plans, etc. it should not take too long to turn around the whole world's belief in free energy.
But first must come an idea that works.
Another reason is disclosure. A well written patent should show how and why the device works so anyone with reasonable skills can reproduce it.
The ad campaign should spread the idea fast. Many will refuse to believe. But with working reproducable models, videos, animations, plans, etc. it should not take too long to turn around the whole world's belief in free energy.
But first must come an idea that works.
re: What would you do, really.
From SEAS - Space Energy Access Systems, Inc.
THE DISCLOSURE PROJECT ANNOUNCES
NEW ENERGY DISCLOSURE INITIATIVE
The Disclosure Project has announced that it will be pursuing a disclosure on the existence of new and alternate energy systems that have been deliberately and illegally suppressed.
The Disclosure Project, in cooperation with Space Energy Access Systems Inc., has discovered that over the past 75 years a number of important breakthroughs in energy efficiency, alternate forms of energy generation and propulsion have been deliberately withheld from the public to prop up the oil, gas, coal, public utility and nuclear power industries.
These significant technological breakthroughs that have been suppressed range from modifications of the internal combustion engine to get significantly higher miles per gallon to new electromagnetic generating systems that extract energy from the so-called Quantum vacuum.
Current intelligence gathered by The Disclosure Project and SEAS indicates that a shadowy operation connected to covert government and intelligence programs but run primarily by US and foreign corporate interests have resulted in this suppression.
Actions taken to effect secrecy and to neutralize the public availability of these technologies - which by now could have completely replaced the need for fossil fuels - include:
Threats, intimidation and on occasion the murder of scientists and inventors originating these energy breakthroughs;
Corporate acquisition of technologies with subsequent 'black shelving' - that is the deliberate suppression of the technology by owning the rights and then refusing to release the technology to the public;
The illegal application of section 181 and related sections of the Patent Law to force inventors to keep the technology secret or face substantial fines and jail time;
The bogus and illegal use of other so-called national security provisions to intimidate inventors and suppress technologies;
Sabotage of inventor labs, prototypes and facilities in order to cause the loss of the technology or to intimidate inventors and colleagues.
It is clear that human society will continue to be harmed by the deliberate and illegal withholding of such technologies and that a thoroughly documented and sourced Disclosure of the matter is urgently needed. The widening gap between poor and rich nations, the worsening situation in the Middle East and elsewhere, the relentless decay in the environment, global warming, intractable world poverty and many other pressing problems facing humanity are directly related to the suppression of these energy breakthroughs.
We call on all concerned citizens to assist us in identifying and securing the cooperation of the following:
Scientists and Inventors of high credentialed credibility who have been the target or victim of such suppression;
Corporate Whistleblowers who have observed or been part of the acquisition or suppression of such technologies;
Government, military and intelligence whistleblowers who have witnessed or been part of such actions. These include current or past whistleblower witnesses from the Patent Office, Department of Defense, CIA, NASA, NRO, NSA, Executive Branch/White House, Congress or any other branch of the military and government;
Non-US whistleblowers associated with foreign governments, particularly western Europe, Great Britain, Russia/former USSR, and Japan;
Foreign corporate or institutional whistleblowers
Whistleblowers associated with government labs or para-governmental institutes, universities and research centers.
Any person who has or can acquire documentation, whether government or private/corporate of such suppression and acquisition of technologies and who can establish the authenticity of said documents.
The Disclosure Project will coordinate an international release of such whistleblower testimony and documents once there is sufficient credible named sources and evidence to establish beyond any doubt the reality of the existence and suppression of such technological developments.
Please help us identify such witnesses and evidence. It is time the world knew the truth about energy, oil and why humanity continues to be held down by our artificial addiction to oil and fossil fuels. The time for change is now.
http://www.seaspower.com/EnergyDisclosureDec122003.htm
THE DISCLOSURE PROJECT ANNOUNCES
NEW ENERGY DISCLOSURE INITIATIVE
The Disclosure Project has announced that it will be pursuing a disclosure on the existence of new and alternate energy systems that have been deliberately and illegally suppressed.
The Disclosure Project, in cooperation with Space Energy Access Systems Inc., has discovered that over the past 75 years a number of important breakthroughs in energy efficiency, alternate forms of energy generation and propulsion have been deliberately withheld from the public to prop up the oil, gas, coal, public utility and nuclear power industries.
These significant technological breakthroughs that have been suppressed range from modifications of the internal combustion engine to get significantly higher miles per gallon to new electromagnetic generating systems that extract energy from the so-called Quantum vacuum.
Current intelligence gathered by The Disclosure Project and SEAS indicates that a shadowy operation connected to covert government and intelligence programs but run primarily by US and foreign corporate interests have resulted in this suppression.
Actions taken to effect secrecy and to neutralize the public availability of these technologies - which by now could have completely replaced the need for fossil fuels - include:
Threats, intimidation and on occasion the murder of scientists and inventors originating these energy breakthroughs;
Corporate acquisition of technologies with subsequent 'black shelving' - that is the deliberate suppression of the technology by owning the rights and then refusing to release the technology to the public;
The illegal application of section 181 and related sections of the Patent Law to force inventors to keep the technology secret or face substantial fines and jail time;
The bogus and illegal use of other so-called national security provisions to intimidate inventors and suppress technologies;
Sabotage of inventor labs, prototypes and facilities in order to cause the loss of the technology or to intimidate inventors and colleagues.
It is clear that human society will continue to be harmed by the deliberate and illegal withholding of such technologies and that a thoroughly documented and sourced Disclosure of the matter is urgently needed. The widening gap between poor and rich nations, the worsening situation in the Middle East and elsewhere, the relentless decay in the environment, global warming, intractable world poverty and many other pressing problems facing humanity are directly related to the suppression of these energy breakthroughs.
We call on all concerned citizens to assist us in identifying and securing the cooperation of the following:
Scientists and Inventors of high credentialed credibility who have been the target or victim of such suppression;
Corporate Whistleblowers who have observed or been part of the acquisition or suppression of such technologies;
Government, military and intelligence whistleblowers who have witnessed or been part of such actions. These include current or past whistleblower witnesses from the Patent Office, Department of Defense, CIA, NASA, NRO, NSA, Executive Branch/White House, Congress or any other branch of the military and government;
Non-US whistleblowers associated with foreign governments, particularly western Europe, Great Britain, Russia/former USSR, and Japan;
Foreign corporate or institutional whistleblowers
Whistleblowers associated with government labs or para-governmental institutes, universities and research centers.
Any person who has or can acquire documentation, whether government or private/corporate of such suppression and acquisition of technologies and who can establish the authenticity of said documents.
The Disclosure Project will coordinate an international release of such whistleblower testimony and documents once there is sufficient credible named sources and evidence to establish beyond any doubt the reality of the existence and suppression of such technological developments.
Please help us identify such witnesses and evidence. It is time the world knew the truth about energy, oil and why humanity continues to be held down by our artificial addiction to oil and fossil fuels. The time for change is now.
http://www.seaspower.com/EnergyDisclosureDec122003.htm