sealed and signed by bessler , this is Besslers seal

[Oystein]

https://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/down ... er=user_id

All three symbols are in Bessler's seal. The symbols can represent so many things such as days of the week, planets, matter states or chemical reactions.

I think the alchemy circle of 1704 was a great find!

This has parallell meanings. One solution is geometrical (Evclid's Elementas etc.), one is traditional alchemy and the physical elements and mixtures etc. All try to understand creation (or prolonging) of life! (Thus explain the work of God.)

I also think that the AP figure is using this circle to point to Moon/Sun (Astronomy/Astrology/ by Geometry, and to Creation of life (and matter) by the Father and the Mother.

Anyway, SON + LUNA is the Sun and the Moon, that also represents Father and Mother (Vater + Mutter). Sun (God) Mother (Mary) etc. This can also be pointed at by shown the eclipse, when the Moon and the Sun "mate"and fits perfectly on top of each other. Creating Jesus, the fish... represented by two equally overlapping circles.

Then we can se that the capital words SOL + LUNA = 18+14+11 + 11+20+13+1 = 88 Just like ORFFYRE and ORFFREY = 88 etc.


So in Rosarium philosophorum 1550 we find SON + LUNA as Father + Mother. They are pushing/pulling flowers and lastly a bird hold the vertical flower.. fitting nicely inside the "AP white fields..

Attached some pictures..

I think this basic ref. was intentional. But there are more I think. The Rosicrucian Michael Maier also told that The Philosophers Stone was Geometric and could be created by the Mother and the Father and Squaring the cricle..


Best
ØR

[daxwc]

I still wonder what the sign that is usually associated with Libra is supposed to represent in the seal. It is not Bessler’s zodiac sign nor is it Karl’s. Unless it is the angel Zuriel is being used as an amulet for protection. Maybe it is purely the religious side of what the name means.

Guardian Angel Zuriel – also known as the angel of vitality and magic. Firstly, his name means “My Rock Is God�. Zuriel is a Principality. He is the ruler of the zodiacal sign Libra. And he is also the ruler of September. Zuriel’s color is green.
Guardian Angel Zuriel is the divine angel of vitality. He rules the animal and vegetable kingdoms. Zuriel is also known as the angel of reproduction and sexuality. He brings fertility and evolution. Guardian Angel Zuriel also has a connection with magic and mystic knowledge. Therefore, he is the patron of magicians and mystics. But Zuriel also has a connection with water. He has the amazing ability to create oasis. And to flood water where it is needed. He creates fountains and springs for the thirsty.

[Krabat]

The circle is a very interesting discovery! I spent the last weeks reading the complete Orffyreana papers including the neglected letters. There are several hints that alchemy was more important to him than it is known by now. For example, Bessler was able to produce phosphorus, what at this time is proof for a very high level of alchemical skills. His medicine also was based on spagyric traditions. Maybe one has to see him not as a mechanical genius with a chemical hobby, but as an alchemist dealing with the mechanical parallel of the philosopher's stone.

[johannesbender]

Alchemy was the beginnings of chemistry , it does not come as a surprise that he was in to it (to me atleast) , many were .

The man had to make a living , and he certainly did seem to find an interest in almost anything .

Jack of all trades , but one that was trying to master them all too.

Bessler being overcome with sadness after some of his efforts at a self driving mechanical wheel failed , speaks volumes to the hope and dreams he had of being a great craftman/inventor.

[daxwc]

Oystein:

Anyway, SON + LUNA is the Sun and the Moon, that also represents Father and Mother (Vater + Mutter). Sun (God) Mother (Mary) etc. This can also be pointed at by shown the eclipse, when the Moon and the Sun "mate"and fits perfectly on top of each other. Creating Jesus, the fish... represented by two equally overlapping circles.

You can certainty make a case of just using two circles. The third just defines the tail and creates the trinity but Bessler only provides two also. To create the ichthys just bring two AP wheels together till the white sections touch at the top.

To be clear the classical vesica pisces is always associated with the Mother Mary. That is circle center intersecting circle center and forms the womb which obviously looks like a woman’s private parts. The classical ichthys is a different ratio and comes about by a geometry construction and represents Jesus. But my opinion your logic Oystein is dead on.

Here is our older conversation on the subject.
https://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/view ... c&start=45

[daxwc]

Oystein:

I think this basic ref. was intentional. But there are more I think. The Rosicrucian Michael Maier also told that The Philosophers Stone was Geometric and could be created by the Mother and the Father and Squaring the cricle..

That I did not know Oystein. I didn’t know he was referring to it as the Mother and Father. Hmmm… enlightening.

[Krabat]

The man had to make a living

Wage of Johann Sebastian Bach, who had to feed 20 children: 400 Taler per year

Orffyre: 800 Taler as a welcome gift, 200 Taler a year without any mandatory work, augmented to 1000 Taler in 1725, plus wheat, wine, barley, etc. worth 344 1/2 Taler, plus a big house for free, with a garden and several fields, plus 8000 Taler for giving Carl a view inside the PM...

Alchemy was the beginnings of chemistry

Seen from 21st century: yes. Seen from early 18th century: No. Alchemy is a way to find God...

[johannesbender]

"Orffyre: 800 Taler as a welcome gift, 200 Taler a year without any mandatory work, augmented to 1000 Taler in 1725, plus wheat, wine, barley, etc. worth 344 1/2 Taler, plus a big house for free, with a garden and several fields, plus 8000 Taler for giving Carl a view inside the PM..."

seen from when he was hired , yes , seen from before he was hired and after Carl passed , no.

Ofcourse , you are welcome to your oppinion just as i am.

[daxwc]

Krabat:

johannesbender wrote:
Alchemy was the beginnings of chemistry

Seen from 21st century: yes. Seen from early 18th century: No. Alchemy is a way to find God...

Mostly I agree but you have to see it in the lens that if the result wasn’t to find God then you were a heretic and enemy of the church. This lingered on even into Bessler’s era. There was a reason that Bessler seems so pious, in a way it was his license to intellect. I am not saying he was not a devote Christian but I am saying he had to be a vocal one. There is no doubt Bessler was a chemist as the Newspaper even called him one. Not sure why it is so downplayed.

[daxwc]

Krabat:

For example, Bessler was able to produce phosphorus, what at this time is proof for a very high level of alchemical skills.

Some related highlights from Wiki:

-Phosphorus was the 13th element to be discovered. Because of its tendency to spontaneously combust when left alone in air, it is sometimes referred to as "the Devil's element"

-Working in Hamburg, Brand attempted to create the fabled philosopher's stone through the distillation of some salts by evaporating urine, and in the process produced a white material that glowed in the dark and burned brilliantly. It was named phosphorus mirabilis ("miraculous bearer of light").

-Brand at first tried to keep the method secret,[48] but later sold the recipe for 200 thalers to D. Krafft from Dresden,[16] who could now make it as well, and toured much of Europe with it, including England, where he met with Robert Boyle. The secret that it was made from urine leaked out …