Aerodynamic effect

[scott]

I still think aerodynamic effects might be part of the secret.

[Silvertiger]

I had the same notion many years ago...just never tested it. I imagined a wing as a weight, such that it would achieve lift force against gravity at the nadir of its downstroke, and then of course on the upstroke at its zenith the same lift force would be reversed and thus add to the force of gravity. I actually had forgotten about it til I read your post.

[daanopperman]

Hi ,

Besslers wheels were covered in linen cloths , in a very few rotations all the air inside would move with the wheel and it would be anti productive .

Daan

[daanopperman]

Also , the mass of the volume of air inside the wheel is too little to be used to lift the crate of bricks in the demonstration .

[daanopperman]

But a bellows could do a lot of harm to gravity , a low pressure inside the bellows with atmospheric pressure on the outside .

To create a low pressure inside the bellows expell some of the air with a jet of air from the side on witch the weights lie/hang .

[Silvertiger]

People inspecting the machine would have felt the air flow at some point if that were the case, since there would need to be an outlet somewhere I think. Personally I think in the texts that there are subtle hints describing the felt-covered machine as being electrical. "...but the weights which rest below must in a FLASH be raised up." "Hard frosts may reign over there, but here the summer LIGHTNING FLASHES." Just my opinion tho.

[Leafy]

In term of lift and drag, lift is free drag is undesirable. Any weight shift in Bessler wheel has two components, tangent force cause counter torque(undesirable). Radial Force which I think is free.

[eccentrically1]

I still think aerodynamic effects might be part of the secret.

Lift is enabled by wings and provided through thrust from jet fuel gasses, what would the equivalent be for a wheel rotating in place?
The air in motion around it would just be providing drag.
So the air inside it would have to be providing lift on some component, which would be a (bird?) wing like structure presumably, but the structure would still need thrust provided by ??.

[daanopperman]

@ Silvertiger ,

Well , weights did not fall out of the wheel when it was turning . Even if the wheel was a sealed unit , air could be displaced without being ejected from the wheel .

With the "electric "part it could have been possible , but then I think it would have been static , to strip electrons off a piece of amber would cost almost no load to the wheel , and you have a huge surface area between the wheel pivot and the rim X the width of the wheel . Anything working on surface area is squared , double the area and you quadruple the outcome of the input .

Daan .

[ovyyus]

So the air inside it would have to be providing lift on some component, which would be a (bird?) wing like structure presumably, but the structure would still need thrust provided by ??.

A falling weight can provide thrust.

[agor95]

I still think aerodynamic effects might be part of the secret.

Lift is enabled by wings and provided through thrust from jet fuel gasses, what would the equivalent be for a wheel rotating in place?
The air in motion around it would just be providing drag.
So the air inside it would have to be providing lift on some component, which would be a (bird?) wing like structure presumably, but the structure would still need thrust provided by ??.

I have been thinking about this recently with relation to static electricity.

But first I trust nobody thinks that a plane carrying a cage of birds is lighter when you get them to fly around the cage; instead of resting on the floor of the cage.

The idea is a surface that rubs electrons from the air.
Much in the same way as http://www.ambergoods.com/electron.htm

Now if the surface is shaped so the back of the object is [pointy] and the front rounded.
Then the gathered electrons will depart off the back of the surface. Thus creating thrust.

One could strip electrons via another method to increase the effect.

The electrons momentum would increase and that would create this thrust effect.

On a wheel the electrons gather around the outside rim of the wheel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimshurst_machine

However the wheel resist being turned as the static charge builds up.

Cheers

[agor95]

So the air inside it would have to be providing lift on some component, which would be a (bird?) wing like structure presumably, but the structure would still need thrust provided by ??.

Of cause if a falling weight was dropped from the North. West. quadrant and hit the S.E.E. quadrant's sector. Then you might have an idea worth testing.

So a weight lifted up on a clockwise rotating wheel would be move to the descending side

Cheers

[eccentrically1]

So the air inside it would have to be providing lift on some component, which would be a (bird?) wing like structure presumably, but the structure would still need thrust provided by ??.

A falling weight can provide thrust.

Yes, we'd have a glider while falling. What would we have while rising? Gliders only rise on thermal convection currents. Bessler needs a source of heat.

[daxwc]

Do you think Karl would have recognised aerodynamic or hydrodynamic force and call it simple?

[eccentrically1]

It all depends on what he saw. A wing-like structure isn't complex. He might have recognized it as comparable to other wind driven structures.