1) About the link https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy10osti/47302.pdf. A few statements in this link are correct. BUT most of the statements in this link a simply fantastic and absurd hypotheses! This fact is so evident that it would be simply a time wasting procedure if we discuss them!
=========================
2) I would like to ask you again to read carefully my posts! You are not reading them at all! So I will explain again for the nth time!
The three equalities V = I x R (1), V x I x t = I x I x R x t (2) and H = Z x I x t x HHV (3) (that is, Ohm's law, Joule's law of heating and Faraday's laws of electrolysis, respectively) have been validated experimentally millions of times within a period of 200 years. And you reject this simple obvious truth! But it's Ok -- let us start creating together then a new revolutionary branch of electric engineering for which Ohm's law, Joule's law of heating and Faraday's laws of electrolysis are not valid! All members of our team welcome such an approach!
=========================
Any (reasonable!) objections against item 2?
A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater than 1
Moderator: scott
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
I imagine more than a few people would think this about your absurd theories and flawed maths.1) About the link https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy10osti/47302.pdf. A few statements in this link are correct. BUT most of the statements in this link a simply fantastic and absurd hypotheses! This fact is so evident that it would be simply a time wasting procedure if we discuss them!
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MrTim
- Aficionado
- Posts: 925
- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:05 pm
- Location: "Excellent!" Besslerwheel.com's C. Montgomery Burns
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re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
Yes, you are not including the (in)efficiency of electrolysis (x .87) in your formula. You are being unreasonable by Not Following The Science. Once you incorporate (x .87) in your calculations, all your problems will be solved!Any (reasonable!) objections against item 2?
;-)
"....the mechanism is so simple that even a wheel may be too small to contain it...."
"Sometimes the harder you look the better it hides." - Dilbert's garbageman
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
The Faraday law, which appears to me like you have once again misapplied it, seems to apply to the amount of electricity required to provide electrons to split the electrolyte into its components. Water is not an electrolyte. It does not take into account efficiencies, temperature etc that you refuse to acknowledge is a major compoent of the ability to split hydrogen.
Pretty sure most of this has been explained to you, but you choose to ignore the facts. Anything that proves you wrong is a "Hypothesis".
Pretty sure most of this has been explained to you, but you choose to ignore the facts. Anything that proves you wrong is a "Hypothesis".
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
To MrTim.
-------------------------------------
Take your medicine!:) I will not discuss this topic with a pathologically ignorant person, who uses "revolutionary" mathematical symbols like (x .87). You really have to see urgently your doctor!:)
-------------------------------------
Take your medicine!:) I will not discuss this topic with a pathologically ignorant person, who uses "revolutionary" mathematical symbols like (x .87). You really have to see urgently your doctor!:)
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
To Tarsier79.
-----------------------------------
Hi Nobel prize winner:),
You again distort my words and you talk nonsense again. Do you do this deliberately or you really have some severe mental problem?
-----------------------------------
You wrote:"Water is not an electrolyte." Which water, you ignoramus? Distilled water is not an electrolyte (liquid conductor) for sure and I never stated the opposite. But distilled water plus (mixed with) sulphuric acid (H₂SO₄) in a certain proportion is a classical example of an electrolyte (liquid conductor), which is used in water-splitting electrolysis for generation of hydrogen.
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Sit down and read very, very, very carefully many, many, many times the most elementary beginner's manual/course in electric engineering! Because otherwise you are talking only nonsense! And take your medicine!:) Immediately!:)
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Hi Nobel prize winner:),
You again distort my words and you talk nonsense again. Do you do this deliberately or you really have some severe mental problem?
-----------------------------------
You wrote:"Water is not an electrolyte." Which water, you ignoramus? Distilled water is not an electrolyte (liquid conductor) for sure and I never stated the opposite. But distilled water plus (mixed with) sulphuric acid (H₂SO₄) in a certain proportion is a classical example of an electrolyte (liquid conductor), which is used in water-splitting electrolysis for generation of hydrogen.
-----------------------------------
Sit down and read very, very, very carefully many, many, many times the most elementary beginner's manual/course in electric engineering! Because otherwise you are talking only nonsense! And take your medicine!:) Immediately!:)
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
Your ignorance blinds you to your own stupidity.
I just realised, my car has a COP 1.3 when I put on the lights and air conditioner, when you add the heat produced from the engine + Kinetic energy of the vehicle!
oooh, George, who is actually a crossdressing male living out of his parents basement with the serial-killing-writing of a 17 year old school girl, working in an imaginary team of "engineers" told me to take my medicine, so I better comply so I do not become the victim of Bates Motel.
I just realised, my car has a COP 1.3 when I put on the lights and air conditioner, when you add the heat produced from the engine + Kinetic energy of the vehicle!
oooh, George, who is actually a crossdressing male living out of his parents basement with the serial-killing-writing of a 17 year old school girl, working in an imaginary team of "engineers" told me to take my medicine, so I better comply so I do not become the victim of Bates Motel.
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eccentrically1
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- Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:25 pm
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
I'm sure the statements in that link are correct, they've shown their work and it can be verified. More than we can say about this thread.
But to continue along this line here is the wiki entry for energy changes during electrolysis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroly ... ectrolysis
So the main problem we have with measurements here is the energy cost for heating the surroundings so the heat passes from the surroundings to the electrolyte and raising the hydrogen to a higher heating value than the electrical input provides.
In the wiki example, they use steam, the most common form of producing hydrogen this way. Unless there is a steam fairy that provides the system with steam, the efficiency can't be greater than 1.
So the question you have to answer is where does your heater get the extra heat to raise the hydrogen to a higher heating value than the DC source input provides? Details, details.
But to continue along this line here is the wiki entry for energy changes during electrolysis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroly ... ectrolysis
So the main problem we have with measurements here is the energy cost for heating the surroundings so the heat passes from the surroundings to the electrolyte and raising the hydrogen to a higher heating value than the electrical input provides.
In the wiki example, they use steam, the most common form of producing hydrogen this way. Unless there is a steam fairy that provides the system with steam, the efficiency can't be greater than 1.
So the question you have to answer is where does your heater get the extra heat to raise the hydrogen to a higher heating value than the DC source input provides? Details, details.
-
MrTim
- Aficionado
- Posts: 925
- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:05 pm
- Location: "Excellent!" Besslerwheel.com's C. Montgomery Burns
- Contact:
Re: re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency great
DrTim speaks:PeterAX wrote:To MrTim.
-------------------------------------
Take your medicine!:) I will not discuss this topic with a pathologically ignorant person, who uses "revolutionary" mathematical symbols like (x .87). You really have to see urgently your doctor!:)
"MrTim is A-Okay fine. You, on the other hand, are deaf to all reason, being deceived by your own lying eyes. I also prescribe that you remove your head from your colon; It is a major factor in the oxygen deprivation of your brain. This, and the smell you emanate, makes you a much disagreeable personality. Sadly, there is no help for that, other than the distance that the internet provides. And also, stop touching yourself; It only makes you unhappier."
"....the mechanism is so simple that even a wheel may be too small to contain it...."
"Sometimes the harder you look the better it hides." - Dilbert's garbageman
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
We are preparing now a detailed description of a series of simple experiments, which can be carried out even by amateurs and which will show the correctness of our OU electrolysis concept. Besides these experiments are carried out in perfect accordance with the rules and axioms of standard electric engineering. Need some time to prepare this description in a proper manner.
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
Will Alice be preparing them herself, or will she be seeking assistance from her team at the tea party?
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
To Tarsier79.
--------------------------------
You are writing here in this forum because of writing itself.
--------------------------------
You are writing here in this forum because of writing itself.
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
LET ME STRESS UPON THE FACT THAT:
(A) In all considerations below we are talking SOLELY AND ONLY ABOUT JOULE'S HEAT AND ABOUT NOTHING ELSE!
(B) All considerations below are in perfect and strict accordance with basic rules and axioms of standard electric engineering.
(C) And if you try to "invent" some absurd and ridiculous objections against the validity of the considerations below, then you simply try to violate the most basic rules and axioms of standard electric engineering.
===============================
===============================
1) SOLID CONDUCTOR. A standard DC source is connected to a standard copper wire thus forming a circuit. This circuit is equipped with (a) a standard DC voltmeter, (b) a standard DC ammeter, (c) a standard DC ohmmeter and (d) with a standard clock.
------------------------------------------------------
1A) The standard DC voltmeter registers a voltage, which is equal to 10 V.
1B) The standard DC ammeter registers a direct current, which is equal to 10 A.
1C) The standard DC ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance, which is equal to 1Ohm.
1D) The standard clock registers a time period of 10 seconds, that is, a direct current of 10 A flows through the conductor within a period of 10 seconds.
------------------------------------------------------
QUESTION: What is the amount of Joule's heat, which is produced by the conductor?
ANSWER: Based on experimental data the amount of Joule's heat is calculated in the following manner:
V x I x t = I x I x R x t = amount of Joule's heat <=> (10V) x (10A) x (10s) = (10A) x (10A) x (1 Ohm) x (10s) = amount of Joule's heat = 1000 J.
------------------------------------------------------
THE LAST RESULT OF 1000 J IS NOT MEASURED CALORIMETRICALLY! THE LAST RESULT OF 1000 J IS TAKEN FOR GRANTED BY THE OFFICIAL SCIENCE!
===============================
2) LIQUID CONDUCTOR. The same experiment (as the previous one in item 1) with the only difference that the standard copper wire is replaced with a standard electrolyte (like distilled water mixed with sulphuric acid in a certain proportion for example).
------------------------------------------------------
2A) The standard DC voltmeter registers a voltage, which is equal to 10 V. (10 V is bigger than 1.23 V, where 1.23 V is the minimum voltage, which is necessary for a direct current to flow through the electrolyte.)
2B) The standard DC ammeter registers a direct current, which is equal to 10 A.
2C) The standard DC ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance, which is equal to 1Ohm.
2D) The standard clock registers a time period of 10 seconds, that is, a direct current of 10 A flows through the conductor within a period of 10 seconds.
------------------------------------------------------
QUESTION: What is the amount of Joule's heat, which is produced by the conductor?
ANSWER: Based on experimental data the amount of Joule's heat is calculated in the following manner:
V x I x t = I x I x R x t = amount of Joule's heat <=> (10V) x (10A) x (10s) = (10A) x (10A) x (1 Ohm) x (10s) = amount of Joule's heat = 1000 J.
------------------------------------------------------
THE LAST RESULT OF 1000 J IS NOT MEASURED CALORIMETRICALLY! THE LAST RESULT OF 1000 J IS TAKEN FOR GRANTED BY THE OFFICIAL SCIENCE!
================================
3) GASEOUS CONDUCTOR. The same experiment (as the one in item 1) with the only difference that the standard copper wire is replaced with a standard sphere gap, which generates spark (or arc).
------------------------------------------------------
3A) The standard DC voltmeter registers a voltage, which is equal to 2500 V. ( 2500 V is bigger than 2000 V, where 2000 V is the minimum voltage, that is necessary for a spark (or ark) to occur and for a direct current to flow through the gaseous conductor (air), respectively.)
3B) The standard DC ammeter registers a direct current, which is equal to 0.04 A.
3C) The standard DC ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance, which is equal to 62500 Ohm.
3D) The standard clock registers a time period of 10 seconds, that is, a direct current of 0.04 A flows through the conductor within a period of 10 seconds.
------------------------------------------------------
QUESTION: What is the amount of Joule's heat, which is produced by the conductor?
ANSWER: Based on experimental data the amount of Joule's heat is calculated in the following manner:
V x I x t = I x I x R x t = amount of Joule's heat <=> (2500 V) x (0.04 A) x (10s) = (0.04 A) x (0.04 A) x (62500 Ohms) x (10s) = amount of Joule's heat = 1000 J.
------------------------------------------------------
THE LAST RESULT OF 1000 J IS NOT MEASURED CALORIMETRICALLY! THE LAST RESULT OF 1000 J IS TAKEN FOR GRANTED BY THE OFFICIAL SCIENCE!
===============================
===============================
LET ME (AGAIN!) STRESS UPON THE FACT THAT:
(A) In all considerations above we are talking SOLELY AND ONLY ABOUT JOULE'S HEAT AND ABOUT NOTHING ELSE!
(B) All considerations above are in perfect and strict accordance with basic rules and axioms of standard electric engineering.
(C) And if you try to "invent" some absurd and ridiculous objections against the validity of the considerations above, then you simply try to violate the most basic rules and axioms of standard electric engineering.
(A) In all considerations below we are talking SOLELY AND ONLY ABOUT JOULE'S HEAT AND ABOUT NOTHING ELSE!
(B) All considerations below are in perfect and strict accordance with basic rules and axioms of standard electric engineering.
(C) And if you try to "invent" some absurd and ridiculous objections against the validity of the considerations below, then you simply try to violate the most basic rules and axioms of standard electric engineering.
===============================
===============================
1) SOLID CONDUCTOR. A standard DC source is connected to a standard copper wire thus forming a circuit. This circuit is equipped with (a) a standard DC voltmeter, (b) a standard DC ammeter, (c) a standard DC ohmmeter and (d) with a standard clock.
------------------------------------------------------
1A) The standard DC voltmeter registers a voltage, which is equal to 10 V.
1B) The standard DC ammeter registers a direct current, which is equal to 10 A.
1C) The standard DC ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance, which is equal to 1Ohm.
1D) The standard clock registers a time period of 10 seconds, that is, a direct current of 10 A flows through the conductor within a period of 10 seconds.
------------------------------------------------------
QUESTION: What is the amount of Joule's heat, which is produced by the conductor?
ANSWER: Based on experimental data the amount of Joule's heat is calculated in the following manner:
V x I x t = I x I x R x t = amount of Joule's heat <=> (10V) x (10A) x (10s) = (10A) x (10A) x (1 Ohm) x (10s) = amount of Joule's heat = 1000 J.
------------------------------------------------------
THE LAST RESULT OF 1000 J IS NOT MEASURED CALORIMETRICALLY! THE LAST RESULT OF 1000 J IS TAKEN FOR GRANTED BY THE OFFICIAL SCIENCE!
===============================
2) LIQUID CONDUCTOR. The same experiment (as the previous one in item 1) with the only difference that the standard copper wire is replaced with a standard electrolyte (like distilled water mixed with sulphuric acid in a certain proportion for example).
------------------------------------------------------
2A) The standard DC voltmeter registers a voltage, which is equal to 10 V. (10 V is bigger than 1.23 V, where 1.23 V is the minimum voltage, which is necessary for a direct current to flow through the electrolyte.)
2B) The standard DC ammeter registers a direct current, which is equal to 10 A.
2C) The standard DC ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance, which is equal to 1Ohm.
2D) The standard clock registers a time period of 10 seconds, that is, a direct current of 10 A flows through the conductor within a period of 10 seconds.
------------------------------------------------------
QUESTION: What is the amount of Joule's heat, which is produced by the conductor?
ANSWER: Based on experimental data the amount of Joule's heat is calculated in the following manner:
V x I x t = I x I x R x t = amount of Joule's heat <=> (10V) x (10A) x (10s) = (10A) x (10A) x (1 Ohm) x (10s) = amount of Joule's heat = 1000 J.
------------------------------------------------------
THE LAST RESULT OF 1000 J IS NOT MEASURED CALORIMETRICALLY! THE LAST RESULT OF 1000 J IS TAKEN FOR GRANTED BY THE OFFICIAL SCIENCE!
================================
3) GASEOUS CONDUCTOR. The same experiment (as the one in item 1) with the only difference that the standard copper wire is replaced with a standard sphere gap, which generates spark (or arc).
------------------------------------------------------
3A) The standard DC voltmeter registers a voltage, which is equal to 2500 V. ( 2500 V is bigger than 2000 V, where 2000 V is the minimum voltage, that is necessary for a spark (or ark) to occur and for a direct current to flow through the gaseous conductor (air), respectively.)
3B) The standard DC ammeter registers a direct current, which is equal to 0.04 A.
3C) The standard DC ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance, which is equal to 62500 Ohm.
3D) The standard clock registers a time period of 10 seconds, that is, a direct current of 0.04 A flows through the conductor within a period of 10 seconds.
------------------------------------------------------
QUESTION: What is the amount of Joule's heat, which is produced by the conductor?
ANSWER: Based on experimental data the amount of Joule's heat is calculated in the following manner:
V x I x t = I x I x R x t = amount of Joule's heat <=> (2500 V) x (0.04 A) x (10s) = (0.04 A) x (0.04 A) x (62500 Ohms) x (10s) = amount of Joule's heat = 1000 J.
------------------------------------------------------
THE LAST RESULT OF 1000 J IS NOT MEASURED CALORIMETRICALLY! THE LAST RESULT OF 1000 J IS TAKEN FOR GRANTED BY THE OFFICIAL SCIENCE!
===============================
===============================
LET ME (AGAIN!) STRESS UPON THE FACT THAT:
(A) In all considerations above we are talking SOLELY AND ONLY ABOUT JOULE'S HEAT AND ABOUT NOTHING ELSE!
(B) All considerations above are in perfect and strict accordance with basic rules and axioms of standard electric engineering.
(C) And if you try to "invent" some absurd and ridiculous objections against the validity of the considerations above, then you simply try to violate the most basic rules and axioms of standard electric engineering.
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
THE LAST RESULT OF 1000 J IS NOT MEASURED CALORIMETRICALLY! THE LAST RESULT OF 1000 J IS TAKEN FOR GRANTED BY THE OFFICIAL SCIENCE!
1. Yes
2. No
3. IDK
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
To Tarsier79.
-----------------------------------
Hi Nobel prize winner,:)
1) IDK. Yes, you don't know anything. And despite of this you manifest again an unique combination of pathological stubbornness and pathological ignorance. I am already absolutely sure that you are sending your posts from a psychiatry hospital. I will call your doctor and I will ask him to take away your laptop from you!:) You are a dangerous madman!:)
2) After taking your medicine (quadruple dose!!!!:)) read at least 50 times the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule_heating. I hope that if you read this article 50 times in a row, then you would be able to understand at last the essence of some basic rules of electric engineering.
-----------------------------------
Hi Nobel prize winner,:)
1) IDK. Yes, you don't know anything. And despite of this you manifest again an unique combination of pathological stubbornness and pathological ignorance. I am already absolutely sure that you are sending your posts from a psychiatry hospital. I will call your doctor and I will ask him to take away your laptop from you!:) You are a dangerous madman!:)
2) After taking your medicine (quadruple dose!!!!:)) read at least 50 times the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule_heating. I hope that if you read this article 50 times in a row, then you would be able to understand at last the essence of some basic rules of electric engineering.