BW in no gravity

[Fletcher]

Welcome FredMich .. I liked jim_mich even if he was occasionally cranky. Age has its privileges ;7)

Enjoyed many stimulating discussions with him over the years.

It sounds like you are familiar with his last 'runner' attempts and that has to be a good thing if you believe he was onto something with his mechanics and physics. His 10 foot plank to cross a 9 foot creek metaphor for solving the Bessler mechanical riddle.

Anyways, the dual counter-poised pendulums in the Bessler drawings were never exhibited or witnessed. They only appear in the well known drawings.

I believe that Bessler left very little to chance regarding his wheels and future prior art claims should they arise. Thus it is very likely imo that the dual-pendulums represent symbolically some facet of his mechanical arrangements that he deemed important enough to record and tag in this way.

Whether jim_mich was onto the correct interpretation and application of their use looks like will be left for you to determine. Personally I'm glad that his last ideas did not die with him and that you are prepared to work with them again. Glad you are aboard. And I hope you prove him right.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi FredMich,

when you brother has mentioned someting like that, two pendulums, then he was on the right track, in my opinion.
Bessler said, they act in pairs.

One pendulum is swinging to the rim, the other to the center, so the swinging
of the pendulums are syncronized.

The problem is this syncronisation as I see it, maybe your brother had a solution for that problem.

[FredMich]

I would like to show my latest idea. I am not as learned in physics as most on here, and I don't know if showing my idea will result in my losing ownership of it, but my goal is to give it to the world if it works. Give me your feedback, guys.

[Tarsier79]

not sure exactly how your Jacobs Ladder linkages work, but it all looks balanced. If it is completely balanced, what is driving the wheel around?

[FredMich]

The swinging weights move the wheel forward like legs on a swing, and the centrifugal force drives the weights out, pulling the paired weights inward, etc, etc, etc.

[Tarsier79]

I don't think it will work. Your belief in a mechanism is will ultimately only be proven or dis-proven with a real world build. A computer simulation may show you the movements...

The swinging weights move the wheel forward like legs on a swing, and the centrifugal force drives the weights out, pulling the paired weights inward, etc, etc, etc.

[Fletcher]

FredMich .. Algodoo is a freeware kinematic simulation software that many use to test ideas.

Like all sim programs it takes a bit of persistence to learn competently. But the ability to answer questions is invaluable.

Search Algodoo Download if interested.

Some also use other sim software used in industry.

Jim_mich used to have Working Model 2 Dimensions (WM2D) at one time but stopped using it eventually. Preferring to build his own visual basic programming of the mechanics and physics involved. The trouble with that route is that you end up being the developer and Beta tester in one. When dedicated programs have been thru the testing stages.

Another is Solid Works Cosmos, and there are others.

Some basic observations. A Cf driven wheel only develops power at a large scale and/or high rpm. Cp = mv^2/r .. (a relatively weak force). It is basically the inertia of a weight wanting to resist a change in direction (acceleration) once in motion i.e. continue in a straight line, from Newton's Laws.

B's. one-way wheels were self starting from any position. The two-way required a light push start.

Georg mentioned earlier that B. said the weights worked in pairs. That is one translation. He said in the original German zwei und zwei (two and two), fwiw.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi FredMich,
the construction look very well in my opinion.
It is not Besslers wheel, but a way to the solution of a self running wheel.

The constructipon itself look as a balance construction, but it isn't.
It is balance in the first look, but it is not in balance when in motion.

So in my opinion, this version is better than the construction in the Bessler wheel, because it is using centrifugal and centripetal movement assisted from gravity. This will result in more power.

Also the problem as any of this construction have, they run only perfect when they reach the natural frequency.

So as an example: it will not run at 100 RPM, it will not run at 200 RPM,
but it will run at 160 RPM.
This is called the operational window.

All in all, a clever construction.

[WaltzCee]

I would like to show my latest idea. I am not as learned in physics as most on here, and I don't know if showing my idea will result in my losing ownership of it, but my goal is to give it to the world if it works. Give me your feedback, guys.

How's your idea coming Fred?

[WaltzCee]

I would like to show my latest idea. I am not as learned in physics as most on here, and I don't know if showing my idea will result in my losing ownership of it, but my goal is to give it to the world if it works. Give me your feedback, guys.

Hello Fred,

One of the many uses of wm2d is to paste a pic of a design into it and let
it calculate a sys com. I deflowered my student copy of it with your design
to see where that was.

The center of mass can be eyeballed if one is in the habit of looking at
models. It can be constructed with a straight edge and a compass too.

It can be precisely found with a sim. I did a rough job.



As was guessed at up thread your model looks pretty balanced.

What do you think drives the rotation?

[FredMich]

I have been busy, but finally found time to stop back here. I want to point out what I am working toward with my idea. With the two Jacob's ladder levers I am attempting to create a movable fulcrum to differ the energy of the out swinging weights and the inward moving weights so that the outward ones pull the inward ones in with energy to spare. The out swing weights arc forward at the end of their swing and hopefully will add centripetal force to the rotation then the continuing rotation can generate centrifugal force urging the inward weights outward, etc., etc, perpetually. I know a person's swinging legs on a swing move the swing forward so why not a wheel?
My comment on using computer software programs to see if something will work is that the programmers believe that all things slow down and stop, so that is how they program the software, which in my opinion will not show anything that it is not programmed to show.
I have purchased most of the materials needed for a prototype and will be working on it as time permits.

[WaltzCee]

Hello Fred

I'm sure you know it's possible to take a little energy from c.f. to control the flow of fuel to
an engine thereby adjusting rpms. Is this process reversible? an input/output transducer
like a quartz crystal? Can you drive the engine causing it to spit out petrol?

We'll go with no. Any fuel is out of the equation. c.f. can be the fuel. OK.

As you spin your device up, increasing the rpms and c.f. , the c.f. drives mass toward the
axle, consequently decreasing c.f. The masses and c.f. are working against each other.

It's too double minded.
As Jim often said, "prove me wrong."

Maybe the conservation of angular momentum can save it?

[WaltzCee]

My comment on using computer software programs to see if something will work is that the programmers believe that all things slow down and stop, so
that is how they program the software, which in my opinion will not show anything that it
is not programmed to show.

That maybe. If you make a single mass then run the SIM that mass will drop with an
acceleration equal to what ever value gravity is set at. The biggest draw back of wm2d is
your computer has to be connected to the internet. There are functions it needs that run
on their servers. The program freezes if not connected.

I refuse to use wm2d for my ideas. Removed from my box. Then I thought I'd give your
model a try. Reinstalled it and dropped your graphic into it. I was very hyped at first. I could get practice.

wm2d was glitchy then froze at the start. I'm removing it for the second time and asking for
a refund. I was connected to the internet. I thought I'd be busy building my models yet
knowing design simulations is tunneling from my machine to their server doesn't sit well
with me.

Might work for others.

Good luck with your idea.

[WaltzCee]

I like the way Fred consicely described his idea. The pic was worth a thousand words.

Fred's wheel could be easily modeled. The steps I planned on using were to

• *Drop his image into wm2d.
  *Make a transparent circle large enough to fit the design.
  *Put both at (0,0)
  *Make 8 masses.
  *Place a mass at the left side, 9 o'c
  *Pin it there.
  *Note its coordinates using them to place a diametrically opposing mass around 3 o'
  *Using mass coordinates on the left to position those on the right, rotate disc 90 degrees.
  *Position & balance every thing.

Then:

• *Make 2 different colored pivots.
  *Mount and balance the one color to the disc where it should be.
  *Place and balance the other pivots where they belong.
  *UNPIN EVERYTHING!!!
  *Connect everything with rods.
  *Display sys CoM.

Testing:

• *Run the SIM before hooking a motor.
  *Make notes.
  *Is sys CoM @ (0,0)?
  *No? Fix it.
  *Yes? Continue.
  *Hook up a motor with a slider function.
  *Run it thru some laps.
  *Make more notes.
  *You might want a slider to adjust the mass value also.

Note: if all the parts aren't precisely balanced the model might be
cross braced and not move.

[WaltzCee]

.. . . .I-m looking for other users here who have shown something similar, that I have shown here time after time, about my setup. Exposing all inner structures is not important, but showing something unique and different is. Like some inner weights path...!
Can someone direct me to this kind of posts ... videos ... pictures ... anything?
Thank you in advance!

I made this by giving a circular well balanced pendulum some energy with other pendulums
hanging from it, then tracking the sys CoM.

You're welcome!



A closer look.