Stabhochsprung

[Georg Künstler]

one element of a storkbill is a simple parallelogram.

This storkbill we can put in a Hamsterqage.
We get on offset to the center during the movement.

One weight is going to the rim, the other to the center,

So you have a special function with is performed by the storkbill.

It produces also an impact, hit on the downgoing side.

The Hamster cage is the frame which is allowing to move the storkbill in a specific range.
If the Hamsters Cage is not there, the storkbill will collaps complete.

[SHADOW]

bonjour Fletcher
le principe bowmechs permet de déployer un pantographe dans une direction de 10° au dessus à l'horizontale avec une forte accélération.
le repli s'effectue à l'opposé à 10° en dessous de l'horizontale.
système laissé de coté en attendant de m'y remettre.
J.B

hello Fletcher,
the bowmechs principle allows to deploy a pantograph in a direction of 10° above horizontally with a strong acceleration.
the retraction is made opposite to 10° below the horizontal.
Left out until I get back to it.
J.B

[Fletcher]

Hi Shadow .. yes, this was an early attempt at using variable A's, or V's, on opposite sides of the wheel. The pantographs have a fixed pivot on the horizontal datum line (purple arms). IIRC just about all the mass of each mech was contained in the red roller weights (pivoted free to revolve). Very little mass was in the pantograph arms, and slides, etc. After having moved past top dead center (tdc) CW they would open or close, quickly. With more force if this was delayed until more upright etc, as the red rollers lost greater GPE (vertical distance) the further past tdc and more upright they were. This theoretically compensated somewhat for wheel rpm and moving past tdc and allowing time for deployment.

What I didn't do then was connect them with cross-pull ropes, to aid coordination, or pair them up. Wasn't really required for this experimental sim.

And there was no physical way for the system to drive itself forward, to pump itself forward.

[Gill Simo]

Might I suggest that rather than apply your time to matters of no possible & thus eventual consequence you instead devote the time to working your way through every word in the English Oxford Dictionary...and find yourself just one example of this one word that might have been the one word that `betrayed the Principle` of his wheel?
There is, of course, no such one word that could possibly achieve such a thing.
A one word clue better than any other one word clue perhaps but nothing more....and that being the case then that one word clue would better be something like `geometry` for instance, that being a better, more inclusive clue to ponder upon than `spring`...for instance.

[Fletcher]

XXXIV.
My visitors included supporters from the highest ranks, but with
them too came base parasites. Some pretended that my secrets
were already common knowledge, probably hoping that in this way I
would be tricked into delivering my artistry into their greedy hands.
But I would often answer them back as if I was a mumbling
shepherd. They got no word of truth from me. I got to be very good
at hiding the truth. Sometimes I fooled them with mumbo-jumbo
such as made-up Latin words, and would then clam up tight again.
People would whisper that I had worn myself out with excessive
study. Never did I hear a word of praise, though I was criticised left,
right and centre. But I never changed, never once wavered,
because a single word could have betrayed my wondrous
achievement. So, my visitors, you who come to learn my secrets,
take note that I can hide behind words. I'm well versed in the art of
rhetoric - so keep away. But enough of all this - suffice it to say that
my work has remained intact. Since this book is already growing
too fast, I'll now start writing another text.

[Fletcher]

I've been pondering the use of springs in relation to gravity and thought of this example of how kinetic energy is stored and released to raise a weight over an obstacle.

Bessler said he could have uttered one word that would have betrayed the principal of his mechanism. I wonder if stabhochsprung could have been the word?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB7JPnJOcUE[url]

Mornin GC .. as far as the a single word that could betray B's. wondrous achievement I think 'spring' or something related to spring as you suggest would be strong candidate. The single word would have to be quite specific, to be afraid of uttering it i.e. would give us a clear focal point to zero in on. And I should think that single word would relate to some mechanical operation. I can't think of many words, if any others, associated with mechanics, that would fit the bill. Of course there is no guarantee that it was a word relating to mechanics and it could have been gunpowder for example. However there is evidence that it could be a simple word such as spring, or such like, which I'll outline later in the post.

FWIW, and relating to "stabhochsprung" (pole vault), when I learned to fly fixed-wing many years ago we learned a technique to gain time in the event of an engine failure while cruising. It was to immediately convert horizontal speed to vertical height while you sort things out. You pulled back on the wheel or stick and washed off air speed until flaps could be lowered at a lower safe speed. The act of raising the nose washed off the surplus speed. The pole vaulter does a similar thing. Pole vaulter's have to be fast across the ground (v and KE). They plant the pole and their forward KE is converted to strain energy in the fibreglass pole as it bends. As it unloads it straightens with the inverted athlete at the top of the now near vertical pole, with little forward KE. Takes a lot of technique and muscle memory to get this all correct. Then the athlete props off the top of the pole using upper body strength to raise their legs and torso above the bar etc. Just like modern high jumpers they then 'fold' their body over the bar. To clear the highest bars they also have to contort their bodies so that their CoM passes below the bar while their body parts are manipulated over it. They have to be either very strong upper body, and/or fast. A very fast person can use part of their KE to aid in lifting themselves over the bar. And why men can pole vault higher than women at top levels.

....................

N.B. My aim in introducing various MT's and their B. comments is to not zero in on any one particular mechanism and PM Principle so much. But to limit us fixating on certain things in isolation, and then not properly considering other things potentially in the mechanical mix. I feel there is benefit in calmly looking at the MT's and notes to attempt to rationally explain what might be of importance in them. Grist for the mill as they say. Only a handful of MT's have B. notes that seem to indicate something of importance or of note to be deduced. Besides the ones I discussed in your thread there is also MT18, which in another thread I suggested the flexible arms were the important factor of note in that MT. They operate like your pole vaulters pole. Springs of a kind.

B. takes great pains in AP and DT to say that his machines do not use external momentum providers, nor are wound up etc.

"without the necessity of external assistance for its continuation – such as the mechanisms which are to be found in other ‘automatics’ – e.g. clockwork, springs or weights that require rewinding."

However Wolff in his examination at Merseburg letter says he heard a spring action. He was the only one that noted this IINM.

http://www.orffyre.com/quotes.html

"Whilst he did this, he did not disguise the fact that the mechanism is moved by weights. Several such weights, wrapped in his handkerchief, he let us weigh in our hands to estimate their weight. They were judged to be about four pounds each, and their shape was definitely cylindrical.

I conclude, not only from this but also from other circumstantial evidence, that the weights are attached to some moveable or elastic arms on the periphery of the wheel.

During rotation, one can clearly hear the weights hitting against the wooden boards. I was able to observe these through a slit. They are slightly elongated. When he put the wheel onto another support and reinstalled the weights in their previous positions, he pushed down on an iron spring that gave a loud noise as it expanded upwards. I therefore presume that there is no doubt that the wheel is moved by an internal source of power,"

JC has postulated that springs were used to aid alignment and keep things true and stop binding etc. That may be the case, they could also be part of a latch and release mechanism for example (but hardly a producer of loud noise which indicates much stronger intent).

They also could be part of the propulsion system. In that any self-moving wheel must have an internal force/thrust that activates and moves the wheel along allowing it to gain rpm and momentum n.b. assuming it is not just mythical latent positional surplus torque OOB. n.b. resetting the spring has always been problematic for me, introducing killer back-torque issues. Perhaps others have better luck.


Side Note : I seem to remember a discussion of long ago where it was intimated that B. admitted to using springs, "but not in the way suggested by Wagner". I can't seem to find any such public admission, but would be interested if anybody else can find the reference quote.

Cheers

ETA : it has been suggested previously that hammermen D clothing (spirals) in the Toys Page could represent springs.

[thx4]

Thanks Fletcher, always a great pleasure to read you.

A++

[Georg Künstler]

when you have a look to MT18 then you see that the energy is symmetrical.

The energy stored on the left side in the spring is transfered to the right side and wasted with an impact.

As I can remember Besslers said the anvil receives many blows.
But he also said that the impacts are not driving the wheel.
So MT18 shows something special, it is producing hits, impacts on the down going side, but it is also a non runner.

In my opinion we can modify MT18 into a runner in an easy way.
The waste of the energy must be used to do an acceleration against gravity.
This can be achived with an pendulum on the spring arms.
I have described this effect many many times as an indirect impact.
The pendulums will be shot in a flash upwards against gravity.
As an reaction of the upswing we get the torque to turn the wheel.

[Fletcher]

Thanks Fletcher, always a great pleasure to read you.

A++

You are welcome thx4 - I think you are a great asset to this community so it pleases me that you might get something from it.

I appreciate that it must be hard to translate to French all the time - it takes dedication and patience.

I assure you my French isn't up to it. 2 years of it at school 45 years ago doesn't cut it. And I wasn't much good anyway. I speak 3 languages, English, after a few beers Rubbish, and after a few more Gibberish lol.

[Fletcher]

When you have a look to MT18 then you see that the energy is symmetrical.

The energy stored on the left side in the spring is transferred to the right side and wasted with an impact.

As I can remember Bessler said the anvil receives many blows.

But he also said that the impacts are not driving the wheel.

Yes Georg .. I entirely agree with you. Here it is in MT where he says it.

"No. 52 The present invention or speculation is to be found at the place of an eminent man. I was not a little surprised at the imagination involved in it. A is a balance wheel, and B is its axle. Clappers, or mallets, on B strike the wheel C, which should thereby move. At D are wheels which, by means of a cord, should move the upper axle B and set a perpendicular going at E. I will only say the following: no wheel is moved through strong blows, for paddles would sooner dash it into 1000 pieces, and it would be utterly destroyed with bullets, as is sufficiently known."

So MT18 shows something special, it is producing hits, impacts on the down going side, but it is also a non runner.

Absolutely !

In my opinion we can modify MT18 into a runner in an easy way.

The waste of the energy must be used to do an acceleration against gravity.

This can be achieved with an pendulum on the spring arms.

I have described this effect many many times as an indirect impact.

The pendulums will be shot in a flash upwards against gravity.

As an reaction of the upswing we get the torque to turn the wheel.

The devil will be in the detail !

But you are right - we must use the energy and not waste it, imo.

I think that B's. notes associated with MT18 spell it out quite clearly.

"No. 18 This is the previous spring-model, and it seems to be good, but seeming is different from being. In the meantime, the principle should not be disdained or entirely disregarded, for it says more than it shows. I, however, will show more than speak of it at the appropriate place."

Here he speaks quite openly and candidly, for a change. I hone it down to this .. my interpretation ..

It looks good but is not. There is something to note about the springy-lever and rim-stops energy transfer principle however. The sudden impact method makes noise, and wastes energy, not helping anything. Later, I will show the correct method of contact which isn't so energy wasteful, and is more helpful.

[Fletcher]

(Page 63) And in truth it now seems to me that the time is long
overdue, now that I have achieved my goal, once known only to
God, that I and the world should see this principle, in itself so
simple, and yet at the same time so deeply hidden, of
everlasting motion, described in total detail and in mathematical
simplicity, in praise of God’s boundless wisdom, and for the
benefit of the entire world.

It will surprise no one who knows me that I believe that Archimedes Law of Levers can not be broken !

There are certain basal truths that must be obeyed.

Opinion : If the Law of Levers can not be violated then a true mechanical PM wheel of Everlasting Motion must also not break the Law of Levers (ever).

Physics Laws may be bent or broken, or incomplete, but Archimedes Law of Levers must always be intact, imo.

That means to me that B's. PM Principle must also conform to the Law of Levers.

B's. mechanical solution using his PM Principle is said by him to be so simple (his words), and also to be so deeply hidden (mine : in plain sight).

Deeply hidden because it is generally off most peoples radar - never gets on it in fact - we are unsuspecting - we do not look there !

Return to Top of Rant !

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Fletcher,
here the modification of MT18.

I had drawn the modification of one spring arm but as you know there are 4.
So on all 4 spring arms you have to attach pendulums.

The Spring arm will be extended by a pendulum at the given position.
So the impact of the spring arm at the rim will not stop the movement of the pendulum.
The pendulum will be shoot up in a flash against gravity.
As a result we get torque on the wheel.

The torque is produced because we have an upswing of the pendulum.

[raj]

Georg, forgive me for using your drawings.

FIRST drawing is as you posted.

Second drawing is your drawing rotated 90 degrees counter-clockwise.

Third drawing shows how your parallelograms will tilt counter-clockwise.

Good luck with your relentless efforts.

God Bless.

Raj

[gravitationallychallenged]

Fletcher wrote:

JC has postulated that springs were used to aid alignment and keep things true and stop binding etc. That may be the case, they could also be part of a latch and release mechanism for example (but hardly a producer of loud noise which indicates much stronger intent).

A self-moving wheel must have an internal force/thrust that activates and moves the wheel along allowing it to gain rpm and momentum n.b. assuming it is not just mythical latent positional surplus torque OOB. n.b. resetting the spring has always been problematic for me, introducing killer back-torque issues. Perhaps others have better luck.


Side Note : I seem to remember a discussion of long ago where it was intimated that B. admitted to using springs, "but not in the way suggested by Wagner". I can't seem to find any such public admission, but would be interested if anybody else can find the reference quote.

I remember reading the same thing, Fletcher. I haven't been able to determine where I read it. I think Bessler used springs to store energy at the end of each movement of his mechanism.

I've been studying linear distance multiplying mechanisms but I could find no mechanism other than a swinging pendulum (flail) that would create a torque at the pivot points which would contribute to the wheel's rotation. "The flail wants to be with the thresher, not the scholar."

Swinging pendulums could have been augmented by springs when released from their bottom position and their inertia stored in springs at the end of their swing, to be repeated again and again every 180 degrees of rotation of the wheel. This would create an oscillation between 2 springs, and would store kinetic energy that would otherwise be wasted. It would increase the speed of the mechanism by redirecting the kinetic energy, instead of letting it be dissipated at the end of each movement.

When observing a clockwise rotation, if the pivot points of the pendulums were arranged so the bottom pendulum would retract under the pivot point towards the axle while the top pendulum would extend over the pivot point towards the rim, the energy absorbed by the pivots would induce a clockwise rotation in the wheel. Each time the pivots would be rotated 180 degrees the movement would continue to produce the same clockwise torque in addition to causing a heavy sided wheel. I believe Bessler's mono-directional wheels used this mechanism. His bi-directional wheels would have reversed the swing of the pendulums according to which direction the wheel was started rotating.

This still leaves us with a major problem. What on earth (or suspended from earth) could cause the pendulum weights to fly up from bottom to top? The answer is 'excess weight', or in other words a prime mover weight. The prime mover weight would be lifted by the pendulum weights every 180 degrees in order to fall and once again lift the pendulum weights. This could create a continuous feedback loop within the wheel. It's simple but the prime mover would be 'deeply hidden' within compartments near the center of the wheel.

The challenge is to engineer a way to keep the prime mover weight out of the influence of centripetal force so it can fall freely without being hindered by centripetal force. The only way to accomplish this is if the weight does not fall through the center of rotation.

[phj]

> gravitationallychallenged - Fletcher

About the mentioning of springs. It's from the "clues" page; https://www.besslerwheel.com/clues.html

-Springs were employed, but not as detractors suggested.
- Bessler