Zeroing in on Bessler's wheel

[agor95]

vlmmoa55,

I think; you are saying that pendulums are useless. Well you aren't alone. Apparently every on this forum feels the same way. I've tried so hard to explain how important they are, but no one can grasp it. I'll never understand why-------------------------------------------Sam

Hi Sam

As you have spent time and recognise the importance of pendulums.
We all appreciate their diagnostic importance; For a wheel is nothing but a collection of pendulums.

In your studies did you look at a pendulum pulling on it's pivot point.
Then storing this pull for later use?

Naturally the pendulum swing will be below it's stating position plus the pivot drop.

However if the stored energy was used to kick the pendulum down at the start of it's next swing as the pivot raises up to it's original height.

I will stop there until I get a favorable response.

Regards

[Sam Peppiatt]

agor95,
I guess the short answer would be no. I see the tug as a wash, for want of a better word. They are constantly speeding up in some direction and slowing down in another. Any force you might gain in one direction would be lost in other. However, you should talk to Georg; he is working on that very principle, if I understand him correctly.

I'm dealing strictly with gravity. Here is how it might work, as I have learned so far. If you look at the video from thx4, the pendulums have to be free swinging going up, hanging more or less straight down, not rotating with the wheel as shown. Then, they should swing out and up, (not over the top), lock to the wheel going down / rotating with it. The best way to do this, as far as I know, is with Calloway's one way bearings. Of coarse the tricky part has been and still is to some extent, how to flip them out and up. More on how to do that if you would like-------------------------------Sam

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Sam,
I am also only working with gravity, but i am using the gravity force to deform the swinging characteristic.

When I deform the characteristic from a sine shape to a saw shape then I have different accelerations of the masses which can be used up to accelerate the wheel.

When you block the reswing of a pendulum then the speed is zero and you have a back torque.
I have tried this way a long time ago and did many experiments with that,
So with the blocking you achieve a temporary stop, which will result in a stop of the wheel turning.

The right way is to accelerate the pendulum upwards with a flash, against gravity, which can be achived with an indirect impact.
An indirect impact requires a moving suspension point that moves sideways,horizontal and is then suddenly stopped.
So it is a combination of the movement which is deforming the sine shape to a saw shape.

[agor95]

I see the tug as a wash, for want of a better word.

I see two words 'tug' [pull] and wash [as in car wash].

Could you try better words.

But you have answered my post distinctly with 'no' pity.

All the Best in your endeavors.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Georg, agor95, right now have to run, no time to answer---------------------------Sam

[WaltzCee]

Condemned PendU opt 1.jpg (15.41 KiB) Viewed 9985 times

I don't have the time right now to explain yet if any have questions, please ask.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi Georg,
Where was I, (had to go to Sacramento this morning), I fear you have lost me again. Sounds like you kick the pend. in the ass, it swings up, and then drives the wheel; maybe you'll have to draw me a picture of it-------------------------------------Sam

[Sam Peppiatt]

agor95,
Yes, better words, if only I had them. Given; a wheel turning CW with 4 pendulums which are translating, (not rotating), across the top, from left to right. The one nearing 3:00 is slowing down and should give the wheel a pull or tug to speed it up. However, the pend. leaving the 9:00 position. has to be accelerated / speeded up. There for, any force gained by the pend. at 3:00 is used to accelerate the one at 9:00. It's kind of a give and take situation. Anyway that's what I was trying to say-------------------------------------------Sam

[agor95]

I a weird way I understand what you are saying!

[Sam Peppiatt]

agor95,
Of coarse this doesn't happen step by step as I have described. Some how it happens to every point on the pends. simultaneously! I think that weights translating in a circle, could be considered as proof, for the law of conservation of momentum-------------------------Sam

[agor95]

So Sam

How are you going to develop your understanding of pendulums attached to a disc?

I expect you could go to building a physical or computer model.

All the Best

[Sam Peppiatt]

agro95,
Next month it will be two years since I started on working with pends. I've probably built a hundred wheels, counting all the variations.
What's agor95? If you don't mind me asking-------------------------------Sam

[agor95]

agro95,
Next month it will be two years since I started on working with pends. I've probably built a hundred wheels, counting all the variations.
What's agor95? If you don't mind me asking-------------------------------Sam

Well the origin of the moniker is just random created user by a server.

However 'agor' is open is welsh and 1995 is when javascript appeared in the Netscape browser.

As I present open 3d presentations which rely, sometime, on javascript.

So that origin story fits better.

Note. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

My pendulum post was to put forward a proof of concept idea.

I appreciate we want to implement in a rotation frame of reference.

However having any over-unity concept that we can prove would be nice.

Regards

[agor95]

Well Sam

Have you put a pendulum on a beam?

I just wonder with a spring on the other end and the beam pivoted in the middle.

You will notice the pendulum as it accelerates down or decelerates up does not pull on the beam. Or in your case wheel.

There is a tug as it washes [swishes] at the bottom.

Can that tug that pulls the bean down be latched?
The beam is allowed to unlatched when the pendulum gets to the end of it's swing motion.

The pendulum mass is on a rod not a rope.

When the pendulum pivot on the beam flicks up it's rod near the pivot hits a peg. This is firmly attached to the base of the device.

This kicks the Pendulum down as the beam raises up.

The latch release cloud be a photocell / solenoid at first moving over to a mechanical trigger.

Note. The beam is strong and light for we want the beam flick to happen fast.

Just thinking out loud

[Sam Peppiatt]

agor95,

Agor95, (Open 95), that's good--------------------No, what I do is really very simple, seventh grade level stuff, or below------------------------------------Sam