Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference

[WaltzCee]

very cool Robinhood.

[thx4]

Hi Robin, at the beginning of your video I didn't understand anything, it took me a little work to understand. :)
Questions:
Are the black dots the weights?
Is the grey part a wheel, for me no?
The interest that I see there is the displacement of the weights, to see again on the MT13, it is much faster. We do not lift we move ...

A++

[Robinhood46]

THX4
Yes, the black dots are the main (heavy) weights.
The outer "grey part" could be part of the wheel, although it is only needed because of Algodoo, too often allowing the red (lighter weights) to go through the compartments that they should be held in. which is a pain in the butt.
The inner "grey part(s)", which don't move, are only there to replace the missing third dimension. It would be nice if i could get the red weights, to systematically go through it, around 2 ish, because this would be better than them not returning to the rim at the earliest moment possible. The inner "grey parts" determine when and when not, the red weights are free to leave the rim. Unfortunately i cannot restrict the passage in only one direction.

I'll make another simulation of this wheel, but with 9 sections, so as to have 8 arms and weights, which is needed to allow the alternating left and right handed mechanisms, to keep everything out of each others way, and actually make it buildable. I think.
I'll try to hide all the unnecessary bits and bobs that will not be needed in the real world and coordinate the colours to make it a bit easier to understand.
It might take a while, it depends if Algodoo is in a good mood or not.

[agor95]

I am thinking 'Algodoo' should be rebranded 'Algo dodo'.

I feel your pain.

[Robinhood46]

So it's your fault Agor.
Things were going just fine and for no reason, apparent, Algodoo started playing up again. Now i know why. Please refrain from being unpleasant to Algodoo, you will put it in a bad mood.
Algodoo is a wonderful programme, it just needs a bit of encouragement.

[agor95]

Well you don't need to fly off your handle - That is what Algodoo for :-)

However I can appreciate when an object's motion takes it into or beyond another. The repulsive effects can be explosive.

All the Best

[Robinhood46]

I like this a lot.
Algodoo and i are still on bad terms, although some days we do get along a bit better than others.
This attempt, which is no where near finished, looks like a likely candidate.
The number of weights, big and small, needs to be played around with.
I am at present hesitating between, passing the lighter weight from one arm (with the heavy weight) to another waiting arm at 2.30-3 ish. The arm having a means of slamming the weight against the rim, causing the knock and gaining the short distance from the centre needed to lightly raise the heavy weight. The other option, is to keep the weight on the arm (with the heavy weight) and somehow force it out from the centre. The second option has the advantage, that it would be possible, maybe, to get the thing to run with only one crossbar.
Early days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TypM0Qyzjs

[thx4]

Old ideas, but with you things are easier, congratulations for the demo.
A++

[Robinhood46]

Here is a different approach, to try and achieve the same principal.
As can be seen, there is a problem with synchronization.
The arms around 3 and 9 o'clock ish always want to go in the correct rotational direction, clockwise.
Should the weights "come to be placed together" at 12 and then "take it in turns to apply force"?
Moving a weight laterally costs less energetically than raising it, The arms need to be moved laterally around 12 and 6 to cause the switching of the mass advantage from one end of the arm to the other.
https://youtu.be/gEx_1ZVMeLg

[Robinhood46]

This one started out very promising, and then i needed to get the sim to run.
There are many problems with it, that can clearly be seen in the video.
Smaller diameter weights would allow me to get them in nearer to the centre. That pesky missing dimension, would allow me to not have ramps catching or the weights falling back, where it is not a good idea.
A fair amount of things to play with, it will keep me busy for a while.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXAmqGu1dsQ

[Fletcher]

Wow .. your simming has come on leaps and bounds RH.

Have fun and a good x-mass.

[Robinhood46]

They have Fletcher, but i"m still limited in what i can do.
I've managed to sim an old animation, or at least a variant of it.
It is very frustrating, not being able to do everything in the most optimal way. If i trigger the weight to shoot up at 6, the sliding puller flies of every other turn, unless i reduce the spring tension, and then it doesn't shoot up. By leaving it to come up at 7.30, the spring tension can lift it relatively quickly without it flying off. The problem with this is obvious. I was hoping to get them to shoot up well before 6, alas not possible, because i still can't use ropes and pulleys which is unfortunate. They allow to modify the direction of a pulling effort, with little loss and no moving masses which negatively modify the dynamics of all the forces in play. On single mechanism mode, i can get the heavy weight to move out to the rim at 2 and back into the inner position for six.
I'm thinking maybe getting the heavy weights up tight to the centre, would probably be better, and with this technic, it should be doable. The compartments Bessler spoke of could have this purpose, and the holes through the axle could allow the passing of the ropes from the pulleys to correctly direct the forces to lift the weights at the appropriate time, or maybe just ropes or rods for triggering mechanisms. The curved arms, which allow the presence of a central axle, make this far easier to build in the real world than a lot of my other sims.
Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it.
https://youtu.be/WKLe-UTAmN4

[Fletcher]

Hey RH .. fwiw I use WM2D primarily as a design tool. I expect it to get overwhelmed if complexity increases beyond a few mechs and simple. Then I build mock-ups as the next phase, based on the parameters and dimensions of the sim etc. This allows me to move items thru range of movements in a real 3D. If that looks promising a real fully articulated low friction build follows.

The point is not to rely too heavily on the sim to get you right to the end before you consider a check build. They go hand in hand imo.

Have a good one !

[Robinhood46]

I agree with you entirely Fletcher. The problem is i haven't been able to make up my mind what to build.
I have always found the apologia wheel curious, but it didn't fit in with many of my early thoughts, with the swinging weights in this manner. I was focalising on the evolutionary aspect of the weights and wheel going around at different rates, which would have meant any number of points (5-6-8-15-16-17-25..... This is what made it difficult to actually build in the real world.
Simming has helped save hundreds of hours and dollars, pounds, euros or whatever it is in your neck of the woods you use, when buying material to make, adjust and add to to your wheels, that then piles up until there are so many you need a trip to the local tip (Bessler's wheel may well be environmentally friendly, but all of my failed attempts certainly aren't). I don't have enough electricity either for about another month, so for time being
Algodoo is all have to play around with. I will probably have a go with a triangle though, i do think it is promising, and it can be done with an axle, which was another decision i had difficulty making, because i was convinced there should be one but many of my attempts wouldn't allow it.
If all that fails I'll ask father Christmas for a runner next year.

[Fletcher]

New Zealand Dollars lol. Worth about 94 cents Aussy Dollar. And about 2 $NZ make a UK Pound (0.51). 0.6 of the euro.

Whatever the exchange rate saved me a small fortune also over the years, and sped up iterations of designs and changes by orders of magnitude.

Might not replace the old noggin but ... if only it could think for itself lol.