Bessler's weights and axle.

[Senax]

Why did Bessler cover up the ends of the cylindrical weights when he sowed people?

Presumably because it revealed that the weights were connected to something, rope or rods so that they could swing or slide.

If swinging they would be free in two dimensions. If sliding they would only be free in one.
I think sliding is the more likely. This give more control

Bessler's axle supports are a puzzle.
Why are they so wide apart?
I believe it is because the internal actions are generating an unwanted twist in the horizontal plane. The wide supports ground this twist.

[Robinhood46]

My guess would be the weights were something similar to this.
The ends would be circular if there was any rolling going on, even if it was very limited, to just move a weight far enough to get it out of the way of a mechanism. If there wasn't any rolling going on the ends could be non circular, but i can't see the reason to make the weights cylindrical, if the weights are kept at a constant orientation. which would be the case if the ends weren't circular.
Edit; why isn't my picture showing?

[johannesbender]

Edit; why isn't my picture showing?

It is a .pdf file .

Bessler's axle supports are a puzzle.
Why are they so wide apart?
I believe it is because the internal actions are generating an unwanted twist in the horizontal plane. The wide supports ground this twist.

Perhaps consider how high the support's were up to the axle , factor in weight on them plus stability and rigidity , the longer something is the easier it is to bend warp or break along its length when its not sufficiently thick.

Why the apparent weight's shape , who knows , but consider air resistance on the surface area face on .

[Robinhood46]

When i tried using a jpg file, it wouldn't accept it.
Before the problems on this site, there was an explanation (and a link to a site for modifying) of what exactly it will and will not accept. Those were the good old days, when you didn't have to know what you were doing.

[johannesbender]

Untitled.jpg

I captured and uploaded for you.

[Robinhood46]

Thanks.
The double grooves each end, would be needed to allow the weights to be held by one arm, while being taken off by another. Or, for an arm to move the weight on to a guide, which the weight could roll along, keeping everything under control and reducing the risk of failures due to slight variations in timing.
If the outer arms, or guides, are fixed to the frame, and use the external grooves, the swinging arms for moving the weights, can use the inner grooves. and this still leaves the centre free, to have the smaller weights, flying about, applying their force to the weights (central).
Today we can use independent bearings for each groove, so as to reduce the friction, created by the different rotational forces in play, caused by the combination of interactions at a given time. they will not be fighting against each other to rotate the weights in different directions, or at different speeds, each point of contact would be free to rotate as it desires.
If Bessler had made the weights from one block, then one of the pairs of grooves, or the weight's surface itself would have been rotating in the wrong direction, which could explain the scraping sound heard on the ascending side.

[Georg Künstler]

as I am understood Besslers words the cylinders are pierced in the middle, they had a hole in the middle.
So they can hang on a rope or roll on a surface.
In my example the cylinder can only roll in one direction.
The diameter of the wire bracket is smaller than the hole, so that the rolling in one direction is blocked.

But you can also fidel a rope thru the middle hole and the cylinder will act as a pendulum.
The main part is the concentration of a mass on a small diameter, therefore the cylinders were made from lead.
Given the weight of around 4 pound(2 KG) we can calculate the size of the cylinders.
The cylinder can not be longer than 18 cm because that is the thickness of the Main wheel.

[Robinhood46]

i would have thought that if Bessler thought it necessary to hide the ends with a rag, then he wasn't hiding a hole going through the centre. Why would he hide the fact that the weights were pierced through the centre, if it is to tell us that the weights are pierced through the centre?
Were they pierced with a hole that had a different shape than a traditionally drilled hole?
If, whatever it was (ropes or rods) that were passed through the hole to fix the weights to the arms, then the rods or ropes wouldn't be present when the weights were removed, they would have stayed on the wheel, probably. Whatever it was that passed through the holes, is what Bessler wanted to hide, and what it was couldn't be easily removed within the wheel, or it wasn't practical/advisable.
The bent rods in your photo could well be impossible to remove once installed, but i have difficulty thinking Bessler would feel the need to hide a bent rod poking out each end of the weights. I don't see what information it would be giving away, that he felt worth keeping secret.
I'm thinking maybe the weights were pierced through the centre when he moulded them, to allow a rod to be passed; which once correctly installed couldn't be easily removed. The grooved ends, would be fixed on a rod which passes through the hole.This would allow the weight itself to rotate independently to the grooves.

[Senax]

Interesting discussion.

I like the hook idea. This would facilitate quick loading and removal.
It would also allow the weights to be used as pendulum bobs.

He describes how he began to build a new wheel, making it larger than the others and explains that the 'inward structure of the wheel is of a nature according to the laws of perpetual motion, so arranged that certain disposed weights once in rotation, gain force from their own swinging, and must continue their movement as long as their structure does not lose its position and arrangement. Unlike all other automata, such as clocks or springs or other hanging weights which require winding up or whose duration depends on the chain which attaches them, on the contrary these weights are the essential parts and constitute perpetual motion itself; as from them is received the universal movement which they must exercise so long as they remain out of the centre of gravity; and when they come to placed together, so arranged that they can never obtain equilibrium, or the punctum quietus which they unceasingly seek in their wondrous speedy flight, one or another

Yes, I definitely like the hook idea. :-)
There is free third derivative (jerk) energy to be obtained from a wide swing pendulum.
This is most obvious in the 360deg pendulum I'm working on at present.

[sequeen]

Bessler has already revealed the shape of the axle in the book.
Cylinder-shaped weights seem meaningless.
IMO, even a square or a triangle has no effect on the operation at all.
Only heaviness is meaningful.

[WaltzCee]

Why did Bessler cover up the ends of the cylindrical weights when he sowed people?

because he didn't want them to see how he was going to keep them in ditches?

Thank you sequeen. I've been wondering where I saw that strange "A" that looks like a piece of a scissor jack.

I suppose Bill deserves a bit of credit for making the MT available.
Thanks Bill.

May I be frank with everyone? I mean that in the sense of being honest.
Not in the grimmer sense of frank.

He's on a fishing expedition.
Must be.
He already told us he knows everything.

[Tarsier79]

There is free third derivative (jerk) energy to be obtained from a wide swing pendulum.

Prove it. No-one has been able to close the loop on a Milkovic pendulum.

Add: Snap, crackle, pop, jerk.....All words thrown around without understanding.... You were never able to give a proper mathematical example of any of them. You may as well use a word like "jackamafloosie" energy. It would have the same amount of meaning.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi,
I understand the argument of RH so that he said that the cylinders can not removed on the fly.
Here a construction detail how it can be done.
2 examples:
the cylinders can fit and also the cylinder hole can be to big so that we get an eccentric weight distribution.