MT137 used to reset internal weights

[cloud camper]

OK inertial energy fans - been playing with some ideas based off MT137.

Gravity only nerds this post does not apply to you so do not read, it will only confuse you!

Was able to mock up the whole wheel with two rods attached to each weight but that caused WM2D to crash so I had to simplify the arrangement with only one rod but that worked pretty well.

We can see the reason B went to two rods on each weight so as to bypass the exact central hub creating a straight shot to the other side of the wheel.







With the rigid rods the weights are very well controlled with no wild bouncing at least in simulation. A rod connects the weight at 12:00 with the
weight at 6:00 and so on around the wheel. Fortunately B said his wheel hub was full of holes so this allows for the rods to pass through!
Thank the lord for small favors!

The rods sliding back and forth across the hub make a very convenient pick off point to reset the internal weights which are not shown.

These overbalanced rim weights DO NOT POWER THE WHEEL but are only used to reset the weights of the internal prime mover mechanism which is again not shown.

With the weights only acting on the rods at 90 degrees to wheel rotation there is no cross coupling effect as long as the angle remains 90 degrees.

For every weight retracting, the weight on the exact opposite side extends to eliminate any cross coupling - very ingenious on the part of B!!

An extending weight will slow the wheel slightly creating a higher moment of inertia but is then exactly cancelled by a retracting weight lowering the moment of inertia so the moment of inertia remains constant whenever or wherever a weight retracts.

Another great feature is that this arrangement will work just as well in the opposite direction, making it perfectly suited to the bidirectional wheel.

Now I don't want to hear any complaints as this concept was forced on me by Fletcher so all complaints should be directed to him!!

A very complete study on the MT137 wheel was done in four parts by John Collins here:

http://www.theorffyreuscode.com/html/mt_137_a.html

[Tarsier79]

Hi CC. On your simulation, make the centre yellow circle clear, then dislpay system COM.

I'm only seeing gravity doing work here?...

[bruno]

Ho costruito diverse ruote simili che sfruttano la gravità di due pesi che scendono diametralmente ; ho abbandonato questo sistema perché devono vincere la tendenza a ruotare in senso opposto; l'unico esperimento che ha dato qualche risultato è "corde" pubblicato su YT; ma sicuramente non partiranno mai sollevando dei pesi.
Saluti da Bruno

[thx4]

Now I don't want to hear any complaints as this concept was forced on me by Fletcher so all complaints should be directed to him!!

I doubt that this wheel turns in the right direction, lol
Then it would be a good idea to move the weights that go up towards the axis as soon as possible.

I don't know anything about it, it's just a suggestion.
A++

[cloud camper]

OK folks, I was able to get the full MT137 with all twelve connections to work. I had to use ropes instead of rods, not sure why the rods didn't work.

I built the wheel way too big so we're not showing any real inertial effects here - those occur on the internal prime mover mechanism.

Using the ropes increases computational load dramatically and slows WM2D way down so I feel lucky to get it to work at all!

But we can see the pattern works and is necessary to avoid sending all 12 ropes thru the exact center of the wheel where there are other necessary functions going on.

The main purpose for the MT137 pattern as I see it is then a reset mechanism for the internal weights as we have 12 pulses available going near the center of the wheel. Each weight drops in turn so we may as well use the produced work to reset the internal weights!!

I don't recall anyone on the forum attempting to model MT137 so I think this is a first although I am too lazy to go back and research it!
If anyone knows of any previous research on MT137 I would like to see it!

Again, this only represents the reset mechanism necessary to reset the internal weights (not shown) so the wheel appears to work backwards!

Also we know after centuries of failures that overbalanced wheels do not produce forward torque so this is not the source of forward motion!

I believe B was trying in MT137 to show the reset mechanism and anyone producing a working wheel would have to use this scheme, this as a way
to prove he had the real McCoy!!

[Senax]

Good luck camper.

[Tarsier79]

Hi CC. I don't think rods will work in a real life build. It would cause a rigid structure. If there was movement between the point and the rim of the wheel I imagine it would all flop downwards to the limit of the play.

What inertial properties are you trying to harness for this design?

[johannesbender]

Tarsier is correct that rods wont work for that exact geometry as is.

When one rope is taught the other slacks , which means the distances changes ,solid rods with no flex nor give can not change theire lengths as tension and compression is applied and released.

[cloud camper]

Yes you guys are right - Johannes you noticed that at about 1:00 pm one rope is taut while the other is loose so only ropes will work - very well done on your part!!

I hate to toot my own horn on this folks but I believe this is a MAJOR discovery about the wheel!

We see a reset pulse every 30 degrees in seemingly the exact area of the wheel we would need it.

And I believe this points strongly towards an inertial source of motion as why would B use two separate entirely gravity driven mechanisms in the same wheel??

We see B knew that an overbalanced weight design would never drive his wheel but yet could be used as a reset mechanism for the inner inertial drive!

[bruno]

Ho applicato otto aste a otto pesi ma ho dovuto scanalarle e inserire un meccanismo di blocco-sblocco; altro problema per cui la ruota non funziona è che le otto aste aumentano la scentratura negativa; meglio le corde la cui scentratura è irrisoria.
Grazie per tenere vivo questo interessante sito i cui protagonisti sono ad un alto livello (eccetto me).
Bruno

[cloud camper]

Good luck camper.

Thanks Frank - glad ur back!!

Keep shaking up the troops!!

[WaltzCee]

I applied eight rods to eight weights but I had to groove them and insert a lock-release mechanism; another problem why the wheel does not work is that the eight rods increase the negative off-center; better the ropes whose off-center is negligible.
Thanks for keeping alive this interesting site whose protagonists are at a high level (except me).
Bruno

:)

Interesting work CC.

• Do you intend to combine this force with c.f.?
  What is the rpm of the animation.

[Tarsier79]

Ill guess:

We see a reset pulse every 30 degrees in seemingly the exact area of the wheel we would need it.

Since a normal OB wheel does not create net forward or reverse torque, you intend to harvest the impact when the rods shift to the bottom to drive a secondary mechanism, possibly into "true" OB.

[Senax]

I think I know why you device works, camper.
I have found a similar system with my pendulums.
Congratulations on being the first in this millennium
to discover it.

More later.

[Senax]

I had a better illustration than this with a whole lot of 360° pendulums but it seems to have gone AWOL in the changeover. So till Edwin comes home from Uni in the Easter Vac. I'll have to make do with this one.

Concentrate on the clockwise rotation.

Red is the leading pendulum.
Blue is the trailing pendulum.
Blue is released one second after Red.

If bobs are connected by wishbone springs then the bobs will be drawn together on the "acceleration" side and move apart on the "deceleration" side.
This will lead to an increase of bobs on the 12 to 6 o'clock side and a decrease of bobs on the 6 to 12 o'clock side.
Thus there is an increase of mass on the right side, a decrease of mass on the left that in turn results in a positive couple which will take 360° pendulums over the top.

Camper also has a spring in the form of a stretchy rope.
This spring is employed in a different manner but the principle is the same.
Strain energy is created on one side and released on the other

More later.