Do you know the super wheel

[azimuthe]

it is a pedaling assistance system.
But of course it shows us the way to a gravity machine.

https://www.superwheelsystem.com

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publica ... KC=A1&ND=4

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publica ... popup=true

Happy reading everyone

[jonnynet]

Never heared about it. First thought is that if there's any gain then it only can come from bumps you drive over. On a perfectly and plain straight, there should be not any advantage. If the extra force comes from springs, these have to compress first and if this is done by pedaling, you can't gain anything, of course. Any different thoughts?

[agor95]

Whooo I feel a Paradigm Shift is on it's way ;)

I hope they have addressed two main issues. That being the feeling you are cycling up hill when you are not and latency were you peddle without the back wheel going around.

These can be dealt resolved with selective design.

I will be watching this product with interest.

All the Best

[Tarsier79]

The extra energy is supposed to come from the weight of the person. Your weight pushes down and compresses the top springs rotationally.

My opinion: it is a gimmick. Maybe if you constantly bounce up and down it might propel you forward slightly. Bicycles can be up to 96% efficient. Their claim of making it more efficient is laughable. If anything,this device will cost energy.

Reminds me of the simpler VEProject farces:

[agor95]

Bang Bang there goes another nail into the lid.

You do have a good point with a bicycle being 96% efficient. Then the 30% improvement is on the last 4%.

I look forward to them getting the patent. Then we will know the technology.

That is if people do patent law correct in this era.

All the Best

[Fletcher]

Never heard about it. First thought is that if there's any gain then it only can come from bumps you drive over. On a perfectly and plain straight, there should be not any advantage. If the extra force comes from springs, these have to compress first and if this is done by pedaling, you can't gain anything, of course. Any different thoughts?

The extra energy is supposed to come from the weight of the person. Your weight pushes down and compresses the top springs rotationally.

My opinion: it is a gimmick. Maybe if you constantly bounce up and down it might propel you forward slightly. Bicycles can be up to 96% efficient. Their claim of making it more efficient is laughable. If anything,this device will cost energy.

Imo it's using muscle energy .. every time you use your legs to raise up in the saddle your weight goes on the pedals and also compresses the springs in the hub, which then is released as small amount of rotational force via the mechanical arrangements (supposedly). Then you sit down again and repeat the raising up process (probably not even that consciously).

ATEOTD you eat food > convert that to glucose muscle energy > rise up off the saddle > apply full weight > small forward force vector.

ZERO SUM GAME, no free-energy, imo !

[agor95]

ZERO SUM GAME, no free-energy, imo !

There is no obligation for this wheel to supply free-energy?
Were did you find that advertised?

If there is a spring being wound up within the hub then as you cycle the lever [LEVers] could ratchet the spring tighter. The spring being of a spiral form. It would feel like a flat tyre. The other none active Levers would prevent the spring unwinding around the rim.

There is a need to prevent the stored energy being released until required.
That means a method to prevent it unwinding at the axle.

Anyway such a wheel would capture energy from going down hill. Then making it available for an up hill section.
This would be more direct than trying to re-charge a battery.

Note. If you are moving at speed then your apparent weight increases when you hit a bump.
In a way this hub is acting like suspension to give you a smoother journey.

All the Best

[Sam Peppiatt]

You might not like Waltcy, but he is right, isn't he----------------------Sam (Dam, wrong page).

[azimuthe]

The patent is clear
when the subject gets on the bicycle his weight acts on the small levers according to the vector orientation the spring undergoes a continuous compression and not due to the shocks this spring compression allows the lowering of the axis fixed on the lever and produces a slight shift between the global axis of the wheel and the local axis of the hubs, this is how an almost permanent imbalance is obtained.
there are several types of wheels depending on the weight of the user because only one of the springs must be constrained to obtain the desired phenomenon.

[agor95]

I have taken your lead and read the patent.

It is as you have described.

Regards

[WaltzCee]

You might not like Waltcy, but he is right, isn't he----------------------Sam (Dam, wrong page).

well bless your little heart, shammy.

[azimuthe]

The following video gives a good picture of what happens mechanically.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1QiEG67duA

[agor95]

The following video gives a good picture of what happens mechanically.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1QiEG67duA

Thanks for the original post and Tarsier79 for his helpful hint.

If you look at other video's of the invention then you will see it's a normal wheel. That is the non-drive side rotates and is not fixed were torsion disc would be mounted.

That means what is happening is nothing to do with applying torsion to the rim.

The patent needs to describe the original parts of the wheel. These need to be not described on other patents or common knowledge.
Also the actual method of propulsion, the Prime Mover, does not need to be present in the drawings.

That sounds Besslerish.

My Best Guess is the wheel deforms as shown but also deforms laterally.
So the leading hub to rim distance is shorter than the trailing distance.

Therefore the wheel rolls forward to take advantage.
However as the wheel rolls the wheel deforms back into the lateral bias.

P.S. I trust this is a more rounded post than my original flat one.

Regards

[Tarsier79]

On a gravity wheel, if you lift the wheel mass (by moving the axle down), the wheel will rotate, but not if it is sitting on the ground.

We have a toy car in my house that uses a spring not dissimilar to this wheel. You push it down, then it clicks back up, but you have also primed another rotary spring that propels the car forward. If it is clicked down 5 times, it will shoot off about 10m. The problem is, you push down and you are compressing the return spring, and the torsion spring. The torsion spring is geared down to the wheels on a one way ratchet. The energy is released in a controlled manner.

Like our experience in gravity wheels shows us with energy, under normal conditions you are adding energy to the wheel as much as it releases it. This isn't a case of the chicken or the egg. The rotation is forcing the spring to compress under your weight, not the other way round. As Ago said:

That being the feeling you are cycling up hill when you are not

. Additionally, pedalling is quite dynamic, there can be pumping vertical movements of the body which would subtly increase and decrease your weight on the machine. That still requires a lot of energy.

[agor95]

Hi Tarsier79

Your line of reasoning was like mine ages Ago. Like this morning.

I had to re-think the concept after seeing the wheel axle to frame connections.
Along with another reading of the patent.

The re-think was caused by the realization that any rotation created within the wheel on the rim is also pushing back onto the drive chain. So the cyclist gains nothing from the device.

Any rotation is transitory and not continuous like a e' motor.
Or spring as in your example.

The other angle is the patent office in Ireland; where this crowd funded invention is located.
I hope they would not want to be approving a product, Steorn like event, of this product.

There is hips and enthusiasm to this new venture.

My first wish was to see what would need to happen for this product to work.

That is why I am thinking on this deformation causing the wheel to roll forwards.

Summary

The wheel is always deformed out of balance and it continues to seek equilibrium.

Best Guess Agor (Welsh for open)