Stork's bill modification

[preoccupied]

I'm not sure if the output force is reduced as the total distance increases. It might be like a gear train where if you move something really fast that the leverage is weaker if there is a load, but you are still moving something very fast and it has force if you launch it. The launching force is what we are looking at not how hard the Stork's bill can push additionally onto something. It's force equals acceleration with no load along a horizontal plane or an inclined plane facing downwards. With no friction an infinitely long Stork's bill could launch something infinitely faster.

what i mean is total input distance vs total output distance , if output distance is more than input distance the output force decreases and vice versa , and if you add more diamonds to ramp up the total distance you also decrease the output force (levers) and increase the amount of input force required .

if your total output distance = 1000000 meters (when expanded), and your input distance = 1 meter (needed to expand the output) ,if you ignore rigidity & friction & resistance , perfect no losses ,
and had a weight of 1Kg on the output end , you would need the input force to equal 1kg * 1000000 ,
to be able to expand the output weight 1000000 meters outwards.

If you are looking at it in terms of actual-mechanical-advantage (AMA) and not ideal-mechanical-advantage (IMA) , you would need more than 1kg * 1000000 to expand the output weight over the distance 1000000 meters away.

So in simple terms im saying to launch something infinitely faster you still need a equivalent ratio'd force determined by the MA at the input.
As for the speed of expansion , or KE , i am not really inferring anything about that , good luck.

If you are pushing along a horizontal ramp the 1kg would be zero, almost zero, and if you were going down an inclined plane facing downward it would be less than zero or you would have mechanical advantage to push it. You are only facing G-forces so without friction and G-forces I think you could move an infinitely long Stork's bill infinitely faster. I'm not sure why you are missing what I'm saying. Are you trying to trick me into thinking that I'm wrong? The speed of expansion is the force used to expand the spring, or KE, even if you are limited by the input force to push something. I've admittedly only played with Stork's bill as an expansion and retraction toy which I have no longer any access to since I was a kid. I doubt I'm wrong though. Go ahead. Say it. "You're wrong" to me. Because you might be ignoring my point to explain something irrelevant.

[Fletcher]

.. You are only facing G-forces so without friction and G-forces I think you could move an infinitely long Stork's bill infinitely faster. I'm not sure why you are missing what I'm saying.

Are you trying to trick me into thinking that I'm wrong?

The speed of expansion is the force used to expand the spring, or KE, even if you are limited by the input force to push something. ..

FWIW .. there are basic relationships in play to be considered. An object has Mass AND Inertia to be considered in any movement and predicted speed and KE increase etc.

In this case the weights in play and the infinite SB sections themselves.

That is why Tarsier, jb and myself often talk about GPE lost. It can be converted into another objects speed and KE (not counting frictional losses). Zero Sum Game. IOW's an object loses GPE (J) and another object (say a SB) can gain KE (J). However the KE gained is less than the GPE lost somewhere else.

A SB is a lever which depending on its opening and closing angles has variable Acceleration profiles from zero to infinite. Ultimately however the KE gained is less than GPE lost.

So the loss in GPE determines (dictates) the KE gain elsewhere, all else being equal.

Imo an infinite speed for an object influenced by an infinite SB is unachievable unless infinite GPE is lost. Because all objects under movement have Inertia (resistance to change in movement) which keeps things within the Conservation Of Energy Laws.

Basically you can never give the spring more Elastistic energy than GPE lost.

Or as Tarsier often says .. the ONLY consideration for pure OOB wheels is whether an object with Mass can lose GPE somewhere, to cause rotation thru torque gained. Since COE rules the roost we only need to know vertical heights, mass, and inertia in our equations.

If you can disprove this Axiom with a measurable empirical experiment then you would indeed change Newtonian Physics forever .. and a lot of people would have to be re-educated including myself, and would do so happily.

[preoccupied]

I think that the Stork's bill is a lot like the gear train. You can make a gear train explode by loading too many gears to it and spinning it too quickly without a load on the other end. I think so anyways, it has been a while since I've tried and I don't remember. With a gear train if there is no load you can turn it at any speed. Eventually the centrifugal force would destroy the gears, but you gain the centrifugal force that destroys the gears despite pushing no load and that's an extra although useless force that exists. So if you make too large of a gear train and turn it with no resistance you can explode it. If you put an infinite Stork's bill along a horizontal plane or an inclined plane facing downwards I think that you would have a similar effect where if you have no load you can push it to infinite forces like gear train that explodes. There is nearly no load pushing a rolling weight along a flat surface. Or at least I think there is lacking enough load to prevent a spring from expanding with enough force to overcome GPE input. You gain infinite KE with a gear train or a Stork's bill I think when pushing on no load. GPE means Greatest Potential Energy right? KE means Kinetic energy right? What is IOW?

[Fletcher]

Google Searching IOW

Q. What does IOW mean?

A. in other words

Meaning of iow in English

iow. written abbreviation for "in other words": used to introduce an explanation that is simpler than the one given earlier.


GPE = Gravitational Potential Energy

GPE = mgh

GPE = KE

mgh = m0.5v^2

therefore .. v = sqrt(2gh) (with no frictional losses).

[Tarsier79]

Hi P.

No, not trying to trick you. You need to get enough energy into the extended weight on the SB to load the spring. The load in the spring has to be enough to push the weight vertically up (or any angle you wish).

Lets pretend the spring is perfect, energy in = energy out. energy in = Energy of the horizontal moving weight. Energy out = pushing vertical weight back up. The OB has no gain, so lift = OB gain. Therefor Lift = OB gain = spring energy in = spring energy out.

There is no advantage.

Cheers

Kaine.

[preoccupied]

Hi P.

No, not trying to trick you. You need to get enough energy into the extended weight on the SB to load the spring. The load in the spring has to be enough to push the weight vertically up (or any angle you wish).

Lets pretend the spring is perfect, energy in = energy out. energy in = Energy of the horizontal moving weight. Energy out = pushing vertical weight back up. The OB has no gain, so lift = OB gain. Therefor Lift = OB gain = spring energy in = spring energy out.

There is no advantage.

Cheers

Kaine.

I'm pretty sure that the velocity produced by the gear train and the Stork's bill is different than the leverage held trying to move it or it trying to move something. The leverage on the Stork's bill when it's extended might not be very much but it produces velocity from its extension. I mean, I don't know, I'm pretty sure it's like the gear train. You can launch something with the gear train that's very light like moving a weight along an inclined plane facing downwards at incredible speeds and you can probably load a spring with it like the Stork's bill like I proposed can. You can literally explode a gear train with no load on one end and the explosion can kill you, there is a lot of velocity producing centrifugal force. You like are assuming how the physics of how the Stork's bill will work without considering the load. If there is no load then the Stork's bill can move without resistance and produce any amount of velocity that it's mechanically built to produce, just like a gear train. If the Stork's bill doesn't work for this idea then a gear train certainly would, but I'm sure either would work, they are both mechanically built to produce greater velocity with additional components and would gladly produce this greater velocity against a small load or nonexistent load. I'm not preaching. If I knew the math I would prove it to you right now but I lost the ability to know how to do that when I was hit on the head. I haven't thoroughly reviewed my education back to a competent enough level to just prove it mathematically right now. The mechanical devices can propel great velocity on a small or nonexistent load. I know that gear trains can explode and that you can push them to that great velocity with a small force if there is no load.

[preoccupied]

There should be almost no resistance to moving a weight along a flat surface pushing parallel to the axle. I remember having to move a car and I was kneeling down so that I was parallel to the tires and I pushed it with my arms and it moved smoothly forward without much resistance. On an inclined plane facing downwards it should be even easier pushing parallel to the axle. But lets say you have something infinitely heavy. You could use an infinitely large crow bar to alleviate the weight and you could push on the crowbar to alleviate the weight and make it easier to push on a flat surface. So if there is some kind of resistance from the weight moving along the flat surface when there shouldn't be you could remove all of that resistance into a very small amount using a crowbar. However I don't think that is even necessary, it's just possible.

[preoccupied]

From my experience using a dolly or crowbar helps lift something heavy up a ramp so I'm going to play with that idea.

It doesn't help much when the angle of the weight is too high up but on a ramp that's 22.5 degrees it might help if you are counterbalancing the crowbar with a long enough crowbar. Now, to make the crowbar longer you could put a gear train at the wheel of the rolling crowbar. This would cause the short end of the crowbar to move very quickly and the long end of the crowbar to move very slowly but if you keep it in the sweet spot and push it up the ramp it would be able to infinitely reduce the weight of the object as you push it up the ramp. This might be how Egyptians built the pyramids or it certainly would have helped. As long as you keep the angle of the crowbar in the sweet spot using a rail, I think you can push a weight up a ramp very lightly. The crowbar as a wheel at its base and rolls the weight like a dolly but it's morel like a crowbar than a dolly because it has a weight on the end of a lever. I really think this could be how people might have transported heavy rocks to build large pyramids. What am I missing? Couldn't this be used to help push something up a ramp?

If you can push something up a ramp that isn't too steep easier, couldn't you load weights to fall with less energy than they fall with?

The Bangles - Walk like an Egyptian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv6tuzHUuuk

[preoccupied]

I think that I might have gotten my gear train explanation reversed. If the short end of the crowbar moves very quickly then it would be heavier. So it's the opposite of what I said earlier the short end moves very slowly and the long end moves very quickly. So you can't lift the heavy weight very far and the long lever can move around freely but it's lighter on the axle of the wheel on the crowbar as if the length of the crowbar was very long.

[preoccupied]

I think that I'm right about this crowbar thing and the Stork's bill perpetual motion machine and that you guys are wrong. You are wrong. Something that I'm not sharing is the infinite leverage gear train because it's a weapon of mess destruction. I invented that infinite leverage shit when I was a young boy and my time travel duplicates who used the time machine to space travel destroyed planets with it. So it's a technology that could turn an assailant into a planet killer. We only have one planet so there is not much opportunity to defend ourselves if it gets into the wrong hands. The crowbar/dolly method of bringing a weight up a ramp should be able to load heavy weights up a ramp and drop them to produce work far greater than the work used to bring them up the ramp. So there is obviously multiple ways to achieve perpetual motion and every one of them is special and every one of them is mine so far. Obviously I am the only genius capable of inventing perpetual motion machines. Then again without my time travel duplicates Archimedes and Sir Isaac Newton humanity would be living in a world of superstition and not science. There would definitely be no industrial revolution without me and my time travels.

[preoccupied]

I think that using gravity for energy would cool the inside of the planet and that can be useful if your planet is very hot, but it's not a long term solution and I don't know how quickly it would cool the inside of the planet. Because part of the reason gravity exists is because gravity sources have a hot core. It effects how things orbit around objects I think. I remember doing experiments with vacuums when I was a kid and I was able to make things orbit around a vacuum if there was enough heat. Heat is part of gravity. You'll just have to take my word for it. I can't reproduce the experiments. I don't recommend all electricity production be replaced with gravity wheels. We should only supplement electricity production with gravity and try very hard to make alternatives so that we don't have to over use gravity.

[preoccupied]

Because of the gear train at the wheel, you can position the lever pushing on the axle more parallel to the axle or even exactly parallel to the axle as indicated by the yellow line in the drawing. Because the long lever can move about freely while the short lever barely moves at all. It's because of the gear ratio. Doesn't this make the weight being pushed up the ramp mechanically lighter? It's still probably pushing the same amount of weight downwards but on the lever it's mechanically lighter and can be pushed up the ramp easier.

[preoccupied]

haha I remember when I was a kid when a gear train exploded. I had about a few feet worth of gears so it wasn't right next to me. If it were right next to me I would have probably been injured by the large gear train exploding. By large I mean many many gears. The Stork's bill will produce greater velocity with a longer Stork's bill and will produce enough force to extend the spring an appropriate distance eventually with a long enough stork's bill. I think that a gear train could do the same thing. The Stork's bill might be a better fit though because it would drive better than a gear train on a turning wheel. On a horizontal plane or an inclined plane facing downwards the load is zero or less than zero and the Stork's bill or gear train can produce greater velocity with additional mechanical components. The velocity is force and this force can be stored in a spring and produce a perpetual motion gravity wheel. When I was a kid I literally put so many gears together that I caused the end of it to explode. That's force that breaks the laws of Conservation of energy because all I did as a little kid to make an explosion was put a small amount of force at the beginning of the gear train. Who made the Law of Conservation of energy? was it Newton? Or did Newton say every action has an equal and opposite reaction?

I look forward to your continued contribution to the thread Tarsier79 and Fletcher.

One of my time travel Duplicates was an Egyptian Engineer. I remember arguing about their use of the Dolly. I believe that I'm the reason the Pyramids were built because I think they used my design here back then for the ramp crowbar trick. I'm not going to say what I think my time travel duplicate's name was. I don't want to claim to be a God in history.

[johannesbender]

If we take a look at a normal single lever on a pivot as an example, within ideal conditions , where neither the weight of the lever nor friction and resistance and wear and tear and rigidity/flex input force or output force matters.

If the lever is at a distance ratio of 1 : 10000000000000000000000000000000 (supported by a windows calculator)
The velocity ratio will be vertical distance moved by effort / vertical distance moved by load.
The output must travel across its distance in the same time as the input travels across its distance.
If the input travels 1 vertical unit in 1 time unit , the output must travel at 10000000000000000000000000000000 vertical units in 1 time unit.
Imagine , we just add air resistance , as the velocity of the output increases the air resistance increases.
What is the fastest or greatest velocity the lever can move through the air , imagine its dimensions etc?

[agor95]

Hi johannesbender

Would you say this thread is about a concept that is not practical?

So it's in effect not anchored to reality or even partially.

It begs the question; why do members post into this thread?

Are they being trolled and lured into a world of unhinged levers?

All the Best