MT44 & MT45

[Tarsier79]

Agor, P is harmless (I can't say that for all of his copies), and entitled to a view.

[agor95]

1. P is harmless
2. entitled to a view.

Agreed to both points and a person is entitled to not read posts.

The concept does not have the BAD section. That was drawn by leafy and replicated by P and then yourself.

You should lead not follow. If you want to follow then follow Bessler.

P.S. remember to fix the wheel not find faults within. Follow the breadcrumbs in MT44 & MT45.

[preoccupied]

I read agor's posts and I didn't understand what he was trying to say specifically but it inspired me to think of a way to whiplash the lever up vertically. If the weight falls hardily from the top to the bottom and then stops abruptly some variation of this could cause the weight to whip lash into a vertical or another position. I suggest using a spring to help pull the weight up like I drew.

[agor95]

I read agor's posts and I didn't understand what he was trying to say specifically but it inspired me to think of a way to whiplash the lever up vertically.

I am glad you have found inspiration.

Just remember there are no levers in MT44 & MT45 and the concept so far is horizontal movement.

It is like saying I have read the posts, viewed MT44 & MT45 and inspired to use pressurized water jets.

Here are my examples of a not related idea.

[preoccupied]

If you make the lever long enough you don't have any counter weights on the wheel, the lever will whip lash all of the way to the top. Then you just need to reload the spring on the lever and that's the counter force. There is a minimum strength the spring can be. It's the force to hold the weight in place at 90 degrees minus the force of the whip lash because after the weight whip lashes the spring will start to pull it along the rest of the way. The spring and lever would hold in place by a latch until at the bottom of the fall when you prepare for the whip lash.

[Leafy]

I think that you might have drawn a visual fallacy. Here is a picture in MS Paint that might be more proportional.
leafyMT44 45.png

Perfect alignment from MS paint. Didn’t think it’s possible.

[Leafy]

To the universe, one idea is just as good as another. But because we live on earth, some idea, well, actually a lot of ideas, just doesn’t work.

[preoccupied]

I'm not sure how to calculate reloading the spring. The lever is longer at the beginning so you would think that it would be easier at that point to move the wheel but the pivot point is more perpendicular to the lever when the lever is shorter so it might be easier to move at there. I propose that it's fairly easy to reload at all angles of this reload section. In fact maybe because there is so much leverage to reload the spring you could use a really strong spring and it would still reload. The maximum strength that the spring could be is very high potentially. The minimum strength that the spring needs to be is the strength to hold the weights at 90 degrees minus the whip lash incoming. I guess that means that the spring does not have to be super strong but it can be super strong at maximum. I think this is another perpetual motion machine design by me recently that would work. I think that my Stork's Bill design will work and my crowbar dolly and my shifting weights with centrifugal force that impacts on only one side of the wheel and this whip lash lever reloading wheel. I don't even know if the ramp is needed to shift the weight. The weight might be able to stay on the lever. If you don't need the whip lash the spring by itself could reload the weight on the lever, it would just need to be latched in place and released at the appropriate places. There would be some counter torque on the wheel if the weight stays on the lever and there is no impact and whip lash. Tarsier79 can you calculate this? What is your analysis? The counter torque on the wheel with the weigh attached would be 0.707 times the lesser distance from the axle on the smaller circle at the horizontal position because the weight would be pushing down on it at 45 degrees. Then after the horizontal position I think ti starts to put even less force on the wheel. The greatest force on the wheel would come from the first 90 degrees of rotation at the bottom because the weight is pushing almost directly on the wheel from the lever but it starts really closet to the axle and it gradually leans on the lever the further out it goes so it's never pushing on the wheel with the full force of the weight the further out away from the axle it goes.

[agor95]

If you are or have looked into the above designs then I would like to know.

I still think people look at masses vertically because that is how all the work is done.

They miss the horizontal movement.

As the wheel rotates with two balanced masses. Those masses are in motion.

Instead of raising the mass at 12 or 6 then just move the mass at 12 at it's tangential speed and direction out from it's inner position to it's outer position. That does not need any work.

Now as the mass falls down we want to use it's speed towards the center line to follow a horizontal path to move from the outer to the inner position at 6.

That is the fundamental task.

Regards

If you are or have looked into the above designs then I would like to know.

The three presently posting on this thread are ignoring the elements present in the MT44 & MT45.

There are no springs and there are no levers. The masses move horizontally from the inner 12 O'clock position and from the outer to the inner 6 O'clock position.

If you find you are not able to focus on the details of the thread and need to go off thread.

Then find another room [thread].

For those viewing this thread about the details present in MT44 & MT45.
Then I await your posts, so long as you do not drift off the topic.

There are many apparent faults; However there are solutions.

P.S. A rubics cube has lots of dead end permutation. However there is a route to success.
That is the same with Bessler.

Stay on Thread

[preoccupied]

Have you considered moving weights up the ramp instead of down the ramp? The ramp would have to be like a conveyor belt. The driven wheel would have momentum and might push the weight up the ramp some before it has to be driven up the ramp by the conveyor belt. Moving up the ramp might create variations where positioning the reload location on a larger wheel might create stronger variations or at the rim of the wheel might create stronger variations or some combination might create stronger variations. It's possible it might trend towards perfect equilibrium or it might create a perpetual motion machine.

[preoccupied]

I have drawn a 4 circumference to 1 circumference wheels. There would be four falling weights on the big wheel and one driven weight on the small wheel. There would be momentum on the weight to push it up the ramp some before the conveyor belt takes hold. I didn't draw the conveyor belt but it would be driven by the big wheel too.

[agor95]

Hi preoccupied

Have you studied drawing MT44 & MT45?

[preoccupied]

Hi preoccupied

Have you studied drawing MT44 & MT45?

I looked at them several times since I started reading this thread. It's misleading because there is overwhelming disadvantage to how it's drawn. The rim of the wheel is connected to the axle of the driven wheel which means that a huge amount of weights need to be in the wheel to make it turn. I didn't do that in my drawing I did the opposite so that I could have more momentum to launch the weight up the ramp a little bit. I don't see an advantage in the MT44 and 45. So I speculate if making it so that it can actually drive something would open up some possibilities and that requires moving up a ramp. That's the closest that I can get to MT44 45. If you have some magic you aren't sharing it.

[Ed]

If you have some magic you aren't sharing it.

Maybe it’s because he has a WMD or maybe it’s because he’s solved PM five times over already and he’s just trolling us?

[preoccupied]

If you have some magic you aren't sharing it.

Maybe it’s because he has a WMD or maybe it’s because he’s solved PM five times over already and he’s just trolling us?

I don't think that MT 44 45 can lead to a WMD. Although infinite leverage can create WMD it's really an isolated idea that I found no way to calculate using traditional mechanics examples. For me I just had the Stork's bill idea and infinite leverage at first. I'm finding some of inspiration from Bessler Wheel for additional ideas. I didn't mean to initially troll, I just wanted someone to beg me for the solution. I thought that I had something special with the Stork's bill modification. If anybody could find perpetual motion machines it would be my time travel duplicates without brain damage like Sir Isaac Newton or Archimedes. I would even give Benjamin Franklin more credit than me for finding a perpetual motion machine. They probably weren't looking for any.