AP Wheel within Wheel

[agor95]

Hi All

I am creating a test rig which is not as good as a physical build.
However it is a lot cheaper and less drilled holes.

The main wheel has an outer hoop at 500mm and an inner hoop at 400mm.

The 'within wheel' was vertical and edge on to the front view of the main wheel.

It has been slanted forwards [clockwise] by 21.7 degrees on the z-axis.
Also rotated anti-clockwise by 21.7 degrees on the y-axis.

So the outer edge section is forwards [slant] towards the clockwise direction of the main wheel's rotation.
The front edge section is also forwards towards the direction of movement.

Note.

If the 'within wheel' was flat the yellow axle would go through the middle of the two main wheel hoops.
As you can see the outer hoop has the axle intersecting more to the front and left.
Also hidden the other end intersects more to the back and to the right.

P.S. The 'within wheel' will have one mass on it's rim. It will be one of three such wheels.

Regards

[Soon]

I shouldn't say anything but there is a way that might work. Math would show it.
AB Hammer told me. If I give an answer it is because AB Hammer taught me. And
anything I do I will do to witness how smart and hardworking AB Hammer is.
See, even in his post to me he was teaching me math. If I don't give him credit then
I will be attacked again.

AB Hammer taught me a similar way while it's not the same thing. The math is similar.
He showed me how the abeling wheel could be modified to work.

p.s., the modification might not be an easy one because it would involve using gears.

[agor95]

I shouldn't say anything but there is a way that might work.

To explain people read a post because the person has supplied helpful information.

So I have cut out the drivel. What is left I already know.

Show me the math related to this thread.

There is no need to wine like a child of past events.

The future is free and open. The past is a prison of weighty baggage.

There is time to fall into nostalgic dotage later.

[agor95]

Hi All

Well I am using The Wheel Within as a temporary visual aid.

It should be a pendulum instead of a disk.

The dynamics of this simple concept is complex as the pendulums mass moves in response to their 3 axis constraints.

Finding the Lagrangian of the system can be done. However that has it's flaws.

Regards

[Soon]

AB Hammer had me do a drawing. When the top weight rotates around to the top, the torque of the wheel will rotate it.
Then an imbalance can be maintained. Teeth know when to bite. Calculating the CoG might be as easy as making coffee he says.

[agor95]

Calculating the CoG might be as easy.

I have cut out the drivel. You have had schooling and are a man who can take accountability
for their actions.

You therefore are telling me the Center of Gravity is easy.

This implementation has dynamic movement that required as a Lagrangian stationary-action formulation.

I am beyond hanging a drawing up on a pin and drawing a vertical line from that point.
Then doing that at two other locations and finding the Center of Gravity.

You say you are educated in Math's. Well prove it - for the task is stated above.

P.S. Before you post ask yourself what can I cut out but keep the message clean.
Is my message preschool level? If so cancel the post.

[agor95]

Hi All

The building of the test rig continues.

I am figuring out how to rotate a mass on the 'within wheel' rim.

The pendulum at the top transition by swing around the W. Wheel which creates an inertial force.

This is in the direction of rotation. Some of the height that is lost is recovered.

Were the height is not recovered the W. Wheel supplies more torque at the initial stage of Quadrant 1.

There are two variables:-

Theta One which is the angle of rotation by the main wheel.
Theta Two which is the angle of rotation by the within wheel. There are three of these.

So only 4 variables; each that can move independently.

From these variables it should be possible to calculate the Potential and Kinetic energy in joules.

The Lagrangian explicitly fixes the change of PE & KE to zero.

There needs to be a hybrid formula process.

Theta One rate is changed from the Torque supplied against Moment of Inertia.

Theta Two rates are changed using a Larangian formulation.

Note.

The W. Wheels are confined to conservation of momentum.
The M. Wheel is not restricted by this implementation.

P.S. Back to building.

Regards

[agor95]

Hi All

For those who do not mind going cross-eyed [Boss-eyed].

These show the W. Wheel at 0 [top] and 220 degrees.

Regards

[Soon]

P.S. Before you post ask yourself what can I cut out but keep the message clean.
Is my message preschool level? If so cancel the post.

That is actually to prevent my being attacked. It is not good when I know I am going to be attacked because
developing an idea and then building it will not always go according to plan. As for math, I am mostly self
taught. I have used available online resources, YouTube videos and my local library.
For what I posted about a wheel in a wheel, I'll be able to do a drawing and outline the math. There will be
only 2 components to this. When the wheel is rotating and when the wheel is rotating the wheel in the wheel.
That will allow for net torque to be known. I'll probably post it tomorrow. I am not sure if it would bother
people to include how Newton's Laws of Motion help to explain how his work can be applied to this. It has to
do with, I am quoting NASA;

Newton's first law states that every object will remain at rest or in uniform motion in a straight line unless compelled to change its state by the action of an external force. This tendency to resist changes in a state of motion is inertia.
https://www1.grc.nasa.gov/beginners-gui ... of-motion/

[agor95]

There will be only 2 components to this.
When the wheel is rotating and when the wheel is rotating the wheel in the wheel.

That will allow for net torque to be known.

I am also self taught with regards advanced mathematics.
I accept there will be times the formula created are corrected by others.

That is no problem so long as we improve our understanding.

All the Best

[Soon]

There will be only 2 components to this.
When the wheel is rotating and when the wheel is rotating the wheel in the wheel.

That will allow for net torque to be known.

I am also self taught with regards advanced mathematics.
I accept there will be times the formula created are corrected by others.

That is no problem so long as we improve our understanding.

All the Best

Do you have anything like Libre Office (it's free) or other such software? I could probably start
a spreadsheet. Then it might be possible to try various values (numbers) until a good result is found.
That could help to make things a little easier. The attachment I did was for working a problem in my
calculus textbook.

https://www.libreoffice.org/download/download/

[Soon]

agor95, initially only 2 values need to be calculated, πr1 and πr2. One is the path on the right side
of the drawing and one is the path on the left side of the drawing. Then πr1 - πr2 = x. Then x/180
will let us have an idea what the average overbalance is.
Then we can consider how much energy is used to rotate the inside wheel. But first we'd need to
know the difference between r1 and r1 and the diameter of the inside wheel. Then we'd have
information we can work with.
For this a spreadsheet might not be necessary but to consider more involved designs like a double
oscillating pendulum, it'd be helpful. And there are some people who have considered that as well.
And if a person isn't familiar with using a spreadsheet, this might be a good place to start.
This is where it might be best for me to go slow. Other people might want to try working some of these
problems and won't be able to go as fast as I can. In Libre it's calc. I think Windows is Excell.

[Soon]

You therefore are telling me the Center of Gravity is easy.

This implementation has dynamic movement that required as a Lagrangian stationary-action formulation.

I am beyond hanging a drawing up on a pin and drawing a vertical line from that point.
Then doing that at two other locations and finding the Center of Gravity.

You say you are educated in Math's. Well prove it - for the task is stated above.

We can start with some practice problems using Lagrangian stationary-action formulation.

https://profoundphysics.com/lagrangian- ... beginners/

P.S. Before you post ask yourself what can I cut out but keep the message clean.
Is my message preschool level? If so cancel the post.

And yet you said

You say you are educated in Math's. Well prove it

That's all I've heard for a number of years, "prove it". When I mentioned my starting a thread explaining what
I consider to be Bessler's Rules of Perpetual Motion I was met with ridicule. And yet it is what my build is based
on. I haven't been blindly building as some claim.
When people openly attack me, no one tells them to quit being childish. That has never happened. And I've developed my own math
because of what I've learned. It allows for a better analysis in my opinion.

[Soon]

This is my invention. I saved the screenshot on my pc a month ago. I have designs on SketchUp
going back further. It uses similar math to a wheel in a wheel. Bearings roll, right? And this gives me
one year from first date of publication to patent it. And that would be today 20 Aug. 2022.
With a wheel in a wheel, torque would need to be converted into work. A wheel inside the wheel would
need to be rotated so it could become overbalanced. Timing does matter. m*d/t is an example of the
work it takes given time. And too slow or too quickly and then the wheel can lose needed overbalance to rotate.
Resistance increases entropy and prevents a wheel from working. It is like a rock sinks in water;
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TKLYZ790Oqs
Resistance can increase overbalance. And if a wheel has too little or too much overbalance it will not work.

[agor95]

We can start with some practice problems using Lagrangian stationary-action formulation.

https://profoundphysics.com/lagrangian- ... beginners/

I have cut out and clean up your message.

If members want to put you in their ignore. Then your positive contribution will be via my edits.

Note.

The link is wordy and is heavy with advertising.

If we are going to have a standard 'one shop' resource. Well this is may as well be it.

Regards