New insight into 4:1 ratios

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preoccupied
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Re: New insight into 4:1 ratios

Post by preoccupied »

Tarsier79 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:39 am My calculations followed your example exactly. It showed no OU.

Math is perfect, you would not expect an OU.
It's possible that mathematically an OU can exist by separate actions following new actions with new variables. In this case the variation comes from being able to load more weight variance from the third position to the top than the weight variance of loading 3 weights with 4. 4-3=1 and 4-1=3 and 3+1>3. The POINT that you can't seem to see in my math that is not in your math is that there is a difference between trading 3 for 4 and trading a larger amount of weights. Trading 16 weights for 21 has a gain whereas trading 3 for 4 does not. Trading 16 weights for 21 requires dropping 20 weights. That one weight is worth 4 weights at the very top because it only takes one weight to lift four to the top from the third position. Look I didn't think that I would have any difficulty explaining the weight loading model because it is straight up legit. It's the other solutions that we should be looking for based on the weight loading model like my weight swinging design that looks for the solution based on it. I think that my weight swinging model works too.

You also didn't think that the Stork's bill could produce extra force from a horizontal or slanted position. But I showed mathematically that a small amount of force existed left in the calculation even if it was very small would have allowed the velocity to increase enough to extend the spring. Now I don't like the Stork's bill design, it's not very useful but at least it was OU but you stuck by your pseudo math because it fit your ideals about physics. The Stork's bill is like the gear train it can accelerate force but have minimal torque so if there is any resistance it will falter. With minimal air resistance and a horizontal plane you could probably make a ridiculous Stork's bill that accelerates and launches a weight super fast way beyond what you would expect to be needed to capture the force in a spring. I once made gear train when I was a kid that exploded and I input a small push on the driving gear. That explosive force was an example of where this energy is coming from. There mechanical resonance energy in mechanical work that is dispelled through space. They say that everything is a vibration in string theory. I don't know much about it.

You also didn't think that the dolly crowbar would work. And I have nothing to work on for it because no discussion went into it. The fact is it's an attempt at structural anti gravity. A lever holding a weight up at 45 degree angle puts 0.707 force on its axle. It's physically lighter. If you were to separate things that were weighed and on one end you have a guy holding a lever and the other end is the axle with a weight on 45 degree angle I think that the axle would weight 0.707 as long as the levers were the same length and angle (45 degrees). I never got to discuss this with anybody you just assumed that it was not worth discussing, maybe because I said it came from a time travel duplicate memory of an Egyptian engineer. I don't mean to turn people off by time traveler claims. If you weight an axle with a gear train on the axle, you can artificially inflate the length and angle of the lever effecting the axle creating mechanical anti gravity. That is what the dolly crowbar is. You can lift 4 ton rock up a hill on a dolly crowbar as if it weighs 20 pounds. The Engineer was also able to create liquids from liquids using a pump that was shaped like an X. He manipulated a variance in space that could create more new matter from old matter which allowed him to increase water supply on Earth when it was lower and more molten surfaces existed on the planet that were unpleasant. Now I don't know if I can validate my perceptions but if my ideas work then it suggests I might have accuracy.

I think that making a legitimate gravity wheel is extremely rare in possibilities. I think it's easier to invent actual infinite leverage which I don't want to share with anyone publicly or mechanical anti gravity like the dolly crowbar. The weight loading model and its patterns is probably the best chance at making a gravity wheel with overbalancing a wheel. I think that my weight swinging design that mimics the weight loading model might work.

I'm actually in on a few ideas that I don't know if would work or not but I think would be pretty cool if they work the way that I intend them to work. I remember Archimedes my time travel duplicate using a special pulley that had a 1:1 distance exchange but any amount of leverage he put into it. So I have what I think that design is too. In my memory of Archimedes I recall that he kept a secret, when he pulled the ship out of the harbor and onto the beach he didn't use a compound pulley like he shared with people. He used a secret pulley that allowed 1:1 distance exchange that was like a compound pulley. If I'm right I might be holding his secret in memory or I have a false idea which is just as likely.

I feel disposable. I am an injured version of several amazing duplicates if I'm right about being a time traveler. Not all of my duplicates are scientists. Like George Washington and Benjamin Franklin who were just who they were. I think that the biggest trait that I gained from my duplicates is their ability to improvise with music. Since I was a kid I published numerous ghost writing in music and voice acting that helped fund my investment bank that I'm out of contact with, and it reminds me of how Benjamin Franklin played with improvised instruments like cups and his wife once remarked that she thought that she had died and entered heaven one day when she over heard him playing on it. I am less fearful than I should be. I don't care if I die. I am disposable. I am an injured copy of several healthy copies. I know of 4 other duplicates of me in the present time. It's possible that my time travel duplicates in that are traveling through outer space will return to Earth eventually. I just get by day to day. They will be amazing.
Last edited by preoccupied on Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New insight into 4:1 ratios

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Please tell me what I did wrong with this math:
Preocc Weight Calc.jpg
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Re: New insight into 4:1 ratios

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Téléchargez Open Office c'est gratuit, vous aurez un tableur type Exel et un traitement de texte Type Word.

Download Open Office it is free, you will have a spreadsheet type Excel and a word processor Type Word
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Re: New insight into 4:1 ratios

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https://commentgeek.com/libreoffice/

Libreoffice est mis à jour plus souvent, est installé dans les distributions Ubuntu, Mint, ...
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Re: New insight into 4:1 ratios

Post by WaltzCee »

Hey preoccupied,

enjoy reading your posts. What I notice about your counting system is the bottom position should be 'zero' level.

When a dollar item is discounted 25% to 75¢, that item needs to be marked up 33.3% to get back to the dollar. The pattern is:
  • discount 1/n
    markup 1/ (n+1)
to arrive back to the original price. ( 1/4, 1/3 ),
( 1/5, 1/4 ), etc.

One quibble I have with your thinking is you confuse invention with discovery.

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Re: New insight into 4:1 ratios

Post by Ed »

Hey preocc,

Making a GOOGOL:1 Reduction with Lego Gears

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QwXK4e4uq ... e=youtu.be

(from some of the comments on the video)

If this machine was turned on at the birth of the universe 14 billion years ago, that lego angel still wouldn't even have turned 1% of 1 degree.

But what about the sheer level of torque this thing is creating?

Once you achieve like a 1:100 torque you are only going to break the material it’s made out of.

It’s an unreal amount of torque, but because of how little it will move the next billion years, it may as well have zero torque for all the good it would do.

———-

Even if the materials don’t break, you would encounter such a high level of contact friction that your input force, even in a vacuum, would have to be much greater to overcome in order to start moving the gear train.

There is no OU here! And if you would build such a thing now, instead of relying on your childhood memory of “blown apart” toys, you’d get a better sense of what you are working with.

Also, there is going to be compounding slop in the gear train and especially on the scissor mechanism, further adding to the losses, which you’d know if you spent more time building and less time traveling.
Last edited by Ed on Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: New insight into 4:1 ratios

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Tarsier79 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:39 am Please tell me what I did wrong with this math:
Preocc Weight Calc.jpg
The important concept that you need to grasp is not that the math is equivalent, it's that the process is perpetual as long as there is extra weights being loaded into the third position. Or maybe I'm missing something. If you can't grasp what I'm talking about maybe I could grasp what you're talking about and see the error in my logic.
Preocc Weight Calc2.jpg
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Re: New insight into 4:1 ratios

Post by Tarsier79 »

It is perpetual as long as no energy is being used, even to move the weights. In this instance, you need to lift extra weight for OU.
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Re: New insight into 4:1 ratios

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Tarsier79 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:54 pm It is perpetual as long as no energy is being used, even to move the weights. In this instance, you need to lift extra weight for OU.
There is always extra weights to use at the top. You never run out as long as one weight still exists at the top. The goal is to find how many weights need to fall to the bottom and how many reach the third position up. In my image modified from your image, I gave the example of 56 weights falling on 3:4 ratio to lift 74 weights. I dropped 8 more weights than the previous example that let 48 weights fall. 56-74=18... 18 weights more landed on the third position up. If I wanted to restore the 24 weights that I previously had up top I would drop an additional 8 weights. Then I would have to drop 9 more weights to get up to 56, that's 17 weights together. Then I could drop 56 again and get another extra 18 in the third position up. And after this I would still be left with 4 weights up top like in the original example. I'm loading more weights to the third position up than is dropping. The total weights dropping vs the total weights loading to the third position is all that matter to it operating perpetually because you can load 4 weights from the third position with 1 weight in the top position. As long as there is more weights loading to the third position than is dropping total it will operate perpetually because a future weight in the top position restarts it. The weights in the third position and top position are interchangeable in calculations because the top position loads three more into the top position from the third position. Can you visualize the top position acting first and then being compensated by the amount loaded to the third position based on the top loader's future actions?
WaltzCee wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:19 pm Hey preoccupied,

enjoy reading your posts. What I notice about your counting system is the bottom position should be 'zero' level.

When a dollar item is discounted 25% to 75¢, that item needs to be marked up 33.3% to get back to the dollar. The pattern is:
  • discount 1/n
    markup 1/ (n+1)
to arrive back to the original price. ( 1/4, 1/3 ),
( 1/5, 1/4 ), etc.

One quibble I have with your thinking is you confuse invention with discovery.

There's nothing new under heaven's sun
For the purpose of ownership you need to acknowledge everything as inventions. Discovery is like finding an island somewhere. Things that can be used in products are inventions. If you want to give God credit for everything then why not let you consider all inventors as gods as if heaven gave it to you as a gift.
Ed wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:12 pm Hey preocc,

Making a GOOGOL:1 Reduction with Lego Gears

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QwXK4e4uq ... e=youtu.be

(from some of the comments on the video)

If this machine was turned on at the birth of the universe 14 billion years ago, that lego angel still wouldn't even have turned 1% of 1 degree.

But what about the sheer level of torque this thing is creating?

Once you achieve like a 1:100 torque you are only going to break the material it’s made out of.

It’s an unreal amount of torque, but because of how little it will move the next billion years, it may as well have zero torque for all the good it would do.

———-

Even if the materials don’t break, you would encounter such a high level of contact friction that your input force, even in a vacuum, would have to be much greater to overcome in order to start moving the gear train.

There is no OU here! And if you would build such a thing now, instead of relying on your childhood memory of “blown apart” toys, you’d get a better sense of what you are working with.

Also, there is going to be compounding slop in the gear train and especially on the scissor mechanism, further adding to the losses, which you’d know if you spent more time building and less time traveling.
I don't know how much compounding slop there would be but I think you are splitting hairs before the machine exists. I think compounding slop would be minimal. A scissor mechanism could easily produce some if not more than enough to turn a wheel over so the Stork's bill design would work with the spring capturing the extra velocity expressed but it would not be as useful as a swinging weight design would be if my swinging weight design works.

Is there anything wrong with my weight swinging drawing? Other than that some of the levers aren't in exact spots in the drawing. It needs to be exact to work. The overbalance is only by 20 to 18 when it is and the other parts are about balanced, only if it is very exact. If I had drawn it completely exact it would have overlapped and you wouldn't have seen the different parts.
Last edited by preoccupied on Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New insight into 4:1 ratios

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I cannot figure out what you're saying. I suggest going through it step-by-step. What is the least number of weights needed to show us? It would be helpful to see, with images: This is how we load it up initially, and this is the next step, and this is the next step, and this is the next step... until it goes through an entire cycle. Then maybe we can understand. I think at this point you are looking for people to agree with you on your math. I think that your explanations are vague. It is up to you. This is my final attempt to request a step-by-step explanation. I am just trying to help you out.

Also, is the bottom level number zero and the top level number five? I think that if you use numbers for every level instead of using words like top and bottom, it will help with the mathematics, and clarity of explanation.
Last edited by spinner361 on Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:25 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: New insight into 4:1 ratios

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preoccupied wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:47 pm For the purpose of ownership you need to acknowledge everything as inventions. Discovery is like finding an island somewhere. Things that can be used in products are inventions. If you want to give God credit for everything then why not let you consider all inventors as gods as if heaven gave it to you as a gift.
Noone invented two and two is four.

also I meant
  • discount 1/n
    markup 1/ (n - 1)
and finally it's next to impossible to imagine this idea rotating. Maybe it's just me.

Could it work with buckets of water coming out of a well?
Last edited by WaltzCee on Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New insight into 4:1 ratios

Post by Tarsier79 »

The important concept that you need to grasp is not that the math is equivalent, it's that the process is perpetual as long as there is extra weights being loaded into the third position
You should be able to show a mathematical representation of your setup and its cycle from start to finish. Balls don't magically move upwards. If the math is done correctly, an equal amount drops as is lifted. Counting a number of balls isn't voodoo math. Calculating how much weight can be lifted is also not voodoo math.

If it works in your head but not in the real world, it doesn't work. I think you are not accounting properly for the cycle to reset.
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Re: New insight into 4:1 ratios

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preoccupied,

In all your time travels, did you ever work as a government economist?
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Re: New insight into 4:1 ratios

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Tarsier79 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:30 am
The important concept that you need to grasp is not that the math is equivalent, it's that the process is perpetual as long as there is extra weights being loaded into the third position
You should be able to show a mathematical representation of your setup and its cycle from start to finish. Balls don't magically move upwards. If the math is done correctly, an equal amount drops as is lifted. Counting a number of balls isn't voodoo math. Calculating how much weight can be lifted is also not voodoo math.

If it works in your head but not in the real world, it doesn't work. I think you are not accounting properly for the cycle to reset.
The over unity is very minimal. We should really be focusing on my weight swinging design. The weight loading design just shows that there is a pattern with 1:4 ratios that can lead to over unity. In order to make a complete diagram of an example I had to have one weight fall downwards in a 1:1 ratio three spaces and load 3 weights to the top position.
loading weights7.png
WaltzCee wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:22 am preoccupied,

In all your time travels, did you ever work as a government economist?
I am Vladimir Lenin. He was a teenager time traveler and he participated in economics. It's ironic that I was like the main communist figure as a time traveler but in the present time I might be the wealthiest investment banker in the world with quadrillions of dollars. That is if nobody has stolen my business from me! I've been out of contact with it for decades after being hit on the head year 2005 and forgetting the contact information. I am not multi lingual like Vladimir Lenin. I even forgot how to speak English good after my concussion year 2001 from a slip and fall. I think that I got really lucky with my investment bank and that maybe people don't think that I deserve it and won't let me contact it or even tried to steal it from me. I chose Hospitals, Franchises, real estate and large projects maybe air ports to be my only investments. There are a lot of gambler banks out there but I think Franchises had surprisingly high returns and was a good choice by me. After being hit on the head year 2005 I forgot my about my audio recording business and got a job at Little Caesars. Man that store did like 300 dollars an hour in profit. If I had 300,000 of those I would make 90 million dollars an hour for 12 hours a day, that's 1.08 billion a day or 394.2 billion a year. Have 10 different Franchises like that for 3.9 trillion a year and do that for 40 years and make 156 trillion dollars. Plus an investment bank can print 10x non printed cash I think so that's 1.56 quadrillion dollars in investment capital, around that. Hospitals are good investments too.
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Re: New insight into 4:1 ratios

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Thank you, Vladimir. I think I understand now when everything is in order from the beginning. So, it looks like it gets an initial push and then it has to maintain that momentum to do all the rest of the swapping until the next push, correct? I am thinking a mix of leverage and Roverbal.

Wow, that is a lot of parts. Maybe hire this guy:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e1BYAfrUwLk

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IvUU8joBb1Q

Does this look correct?

step 1: 16 fall 4 = 16 x 4 = 64
21 rise 3 = 21 x 3 = 63
64 : 63 ratio

steps 2, 3, 4 (one weight falls three times): 1 falls 1 = 1 x 1 = 1
1 rises 1 = 1 x 1 = 1
1:1 ratio

step 5: Wait... how do 4 weights fall 4 levels here? I think there are only 3 weights that can fall 4 levels, and then also 1 can fall 3 levels. What is missing? Between your steps 5 & 6 did 1 weight magically rise 1 level? Are you being sneaky?
Last edited by spinner361 on Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:17 am, edited 19 times in total.
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