THE wheel fatal flaw that no one notice

[spinner361]

The wheel has a fatal flaw that no one notices.

[Leafy]

It maybe that the weight shift and OB are two different systems.

OB like MT13 needs energy. Weight shift itself cannot achieve OB. Could it be that the weight shift is the prime mover to run regular OB.

[spinner361]

I am thinking of a problem with your specific design.

You are the weight. You are trying to move from one side to the other but you cannot move at all. Tell me everything about your experience.

[johannesbender]

For overbalance to be overbalance or overweight to be overweight , one or both of two things is needed , either a difference in distance or weight or both at the same time.

That difference around a pivot can be called a lever or a moment or torque or mechanical advantage , and for this to move one with another , the one that moves the other must lose more GPE than the one to be moved , and if it must lose more GPE than the other then there is by logic a need for ever more GPE loss from yet another to move the previous one back ad nauseam , since GPE converts to KE in the end its is an energy loss and an extra amount of energy needed.

Put differently , If 2 people sit on a wheel at 2 opposed positions say person A at 3 oclock and person B at 9 oclock , person A is light and person B is heavy , or person A is closer from the center than person B , or person A is closer to the center and lighter than person B , then person B must move person A by falling (Lose more GPE than A) , but to move person B now needs another to lose more GPE by being further or heavier or both , or person B needs to magically move back on its own , and so there is a need for more which does not exist , unless the laws for it is broken ie. energy is gained to supplement the loss (extra needed energy) , designs like mt13 where it is either overbalance or overweight remains an impossible avenue to pursue .

They are in my opinion as proven by the laws , mostly a one shot thing , one shot in terms of they simply lose the "energy" they initially have by virtue of GPE until there is none left , ie. they wind down.

[agor95]

No, it just a simulation of the mind.

When building simulations in your mind they either work or they don't; as you choose to believe.
As you created the mind simulation it's your too modify.

In a way you cast a creation into another persons mind by your post. They read and view images present in your post to achieve this transfer.

That mind simulation is not yours but theirs and as such it spins off developing a life of it's own.

It is good you have developed the ability to produce images and keep the supporting text quantity down.

Regards

[spinner361]

You, the weight, are stuck in the corner, and in the corner you will stay.

[Leafy]

One side need to be empty and the other need to be full.

I’m not able to empty it. But I have an idea.

[Leafy]

I think this is the solution.

The mass has to lift the one next to it and the angle has to be shortened.

As the figure shown, the going down mass has steeper slope and easily lift the other mass.

The weight distribution profile also show OB!

What do you think men? We done it?

[spinner361]

I am thinking that it will find a place of balance and remain there. How do you propose to reset the weights?

[Tarsier79]

Which has more torque in the gravity field?

I think you will find they are equal. In a perfect world your transaction is also equal. No path in a gravity system will give you OU.

[Leafy]

Spinner,

The left mass is reset by the right mass.

Tarsier,

I don’t think that’s how the mass profile as drawn works. You just compare the total length of the left side and the right side. Because you don’t know how concentrated the mass of the green part to the red part.

[spinner361]

I hope that you figure something out.

[Fletcher]

It maybe that the weight shift and OB are two different systems.

OB like MT13 needs energy. Weight shift itself cannot achieve OB.

Could it be that the weight shift is the prime mover to run regular OB.

Johnny-come-lately here lol ..

I believe your comments above Leafy are quite close to the mark ..

Look at the anecdotal evidence to support the conclusion that there are two different systems in play within a "runner".

1. ANY ordinary OB system (MT has B's. accumulated experiences, builds, and ideas he came across and documented but is by no means the complete set of OB possibilities which is just about limitless). All of them, imagined and real, are constrained by the laws of physics and are non-runners, including MT13 which clearly shows and tells the need for energy input. The natural presumption (when viewing and reading MT13 in particular) is that B. is showing us that an "energy input" is needed, but is that correct ?

2. Continuing OB (a self-moving runner) will not happen without SOME additional "Rotational Input", rather than only a strict "Energy Input" per se, IMO. In the sense of energy input it is suggestive of a "fuel" ... because we all exist in "Energy Economies" in the modern world, where we combust wood and hydrocarbons to provide the "energy" to drive our industrialized world (releasing CO2 and contributing to Climate Change) ... However, B. appears NOT to have used an additional (and with a need to be replenished) "fuel" as his "energy" source, or as I prefer to think of it, his 'ever-replenishing rotational input source' which is not a "fuel/energy" as we know it. That I believe was the purpose of the Prime Mover as I've mentioned before, to keep it moving along thru mechanics.

3. The clincher IMO that this is so is that he claims he could make MT's 44 and 48 into "runners", which whilst being OB systems are far different in DNA from the likes of MT13 etc. Therefore a "generalistic" Prime Mover apparatus is required for just about ANY OB-non-runner to become a bona-fide "self-moving-runner" when the two mechanical systems are permanently brought together. IMO !

4. Finding the physical source (and math) behind the Prime Movers "donation" to a successful runner is the quest as I see it. An OB design or concept without the Prime Mover attachment is an exercise in futility and frustration no matter how unique, imo. It simply is only Half The Equation, and not the important half at that !

All The Best -f

[Tarsier79]

Hi Leafy

Stating the obvious, the red path is where the weight would normally travel in a circle (and its leverage from center). Take a best case scenario for the transition....

I don't think it matters about weight distribution. A mass has to transverse around the entire path. Look at the leverage vs its angle to gravity the red lever would have with a weight at the end and compare to the green lever.

....The funny thing: I think my first take was wrong. We all make mistakes. Remember the way to calculate torque in a simple system, draw a line up to the X axis and measure.

Your dropping weight can easily lift your lifting weight with greater GPE. The vertical line from the top red to top green outer is vertical, therefore they have the same torque at that comparable instant from gravity. The angles of operation look similar, but the weight at the bottom red position has more rotational torque than the green vertical weight position. My opinion is that a weight traversing the green arc will overall have less torque than it will following the red arc.

[Leafy]

Yes, I think it’s a B system, not OB. You made me think it through thx