Part Three is the Charm

[eccentrically1]

Damn .. I thought an increase in rpm WAS an increase in Angular Velocity lol.

Yes, that’s right. But we’re left with the same one-fold problem. What non-contact force between earth and wheel is increasing the rpm of the wheel and decreasing the rpm of the earth?

Yep .. it's a doozy alright. Bit of a head scratcher it is.

FWIW I don't think B. would have been thinking in terms of Conservation Of Momentums and COE and working backwards to a Prime Mover mech etc.

.................

Not to me. Such forces (gravity, electromagnetism,) aren’t candidates for what you propose. B’s wheels weren’t gaining momentum from earth’s orbit or angular velocity from its spin via non contact forces.

[mryy]

mryy,
I still think your wheel is too complicated but, let's say I'm wrong. I think trying to catch the red weights would be a nightmare, it would be a miracle, if you could ever get that to work but, again let's say I'm wrong. Also, trying to shoot heavy weights straight up would be absolutely prohibitive but, let's say I'm wrong about that too.

However, there is one thing I'm not wrong about. If you back your wheel up about 15 degrees, you will see there 10 weights below the center line and only 7 above. This means that it will be bottom heavy, which means it wont turn. I'm sorry, tethered or not, it's a dead duck----------------Sam

Come on Sam, the wheel isn't that complicated...

The red flying weights are low mass as I have said times before. In a wheel the size of B.'s Gera, the weights could be equivalent to marbles. Why do I get the feeling there is this misconception the levers are shooting up boulders? They're not!

Despite being bottom-heavy (as are many designs in MT) it is also right-heavy. This right-heaviness (preponderance) will cause it turn CW. It's a left-right OOB design -- aren't they all?

Coordinating the weights and levers requires some planning. B. said his wheel took immense amount of time and calculations to make it go. Mine isn't any different and shouldn't be faulted for that which B. even admitted with his wheel.

[Fletcher]

John Collins AP ..

"I constructed my great work, the 6-ell diameter wheel. It revolved in either direction, but caused me a few headaches before I got the mechanism properly adjusted" – AP pg 281

"I make my machines in such a way that, big or small, I can make the resulting power small or big as I choose. I can get the power to a perfectly calculated degree, multiplied up even as much as fourfold" – AP pg 355

[Sam Peppiatt]

mryy,
What can I say. I remain unconvinced. But, what do I know------------------------------------Sam

[ovyyus]

B’s wheels weren’t gaining momentum from earth’s orbit or angular velocity from its spin via non contact forces.

Bessler's wheels were in direct contact with the earth. An accelerating/swinging weight/mechanism inside the wheel can apply torque against the earth through the support posts. I guess we need a wheel mechanism that gains 'kick-back' momentum from the earth through the support posts.

[eccentrically1]

B’s wheels weren’t gaining momentum from earth’s orbit or angular velocity from its spin via non contact forces.

Bessler's wheels were in direct contact with the earth. An accelerating/swinging weight/mechanism inside the wheel can apply torque against the earth through the support posts. I guess we need a wheel mechanism that gains 'kick-back' momentum from the earth through the support posts.

Any of the MT's do that. The problem remains finding a gain from the force (torque) pair. It can't be done. The application of the mechanism is thermal, I'm convinced.

FWIW I don't think B. would have been thinking in terms of Conservation Of Momentums and COE and working backwards to a Prime Mover mech etc.

Yes, that was above his pay grade. He stumbled on it and attributed it to a revelation from a dream.

[mryy]

In this version of ??theOne$$ I redesigned the blue guides. This time they swing *freely* about the same pivots as the levers. I did shorten the hooked catch arm of the lever to open up the free space for the flying red weights to strike at the 2:00 position. Otherwise the lever is the same with two opposing transverse torsion springs at the tip and fulcrum.

The weights on the ascending side are closer to the axle earlier in time with this version. There isn't any free falling as with the previous guides so the net torque may be less. I feel this wheel has a minimalist appearance.

So you like?

[WaltzCee]

First let me say thank you for sharing your design, YY. I can't ever recall any design using ballistics as you suggest.

Last century I sim'ed something that had one of the masses moving at about 5000 mph in about 4 seconds.

Another SIM I describe here:

....

If I could re- upload the image I would. Although I'm not the genius mathematician some profess to be, wm2d does a pretty good job.

I don't think this wheel is an answer, yet parts of it are remarkable. For instance, given the g-force that anything in that wheel would move. Yet if I could repost the gif you would see the tracking of the CoM shows it was still moving.

Finally, I reserve the right to be wrong with my arithmetic. I'm no professional cipher

5000 mph. That's over 7333 ft/sec. Batchit crazy alright. Anything is possible in a sim I guess.

I am thinking the flying red weights in my design are moving no more more than 100 ft/sec if even. The faster the better obviously.

Here's a diy spring gun using 8 mm ball bearings as projectiles. Action starts at 5:24. He claims it maintains power up to 5 m (~16 ft). Not bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP1GPqaJryE

It was 2 different sim's, YY. I calculated the 5000 mph by (I blush to admit it) resorting to trig functions to calculate the High Hippopotamus, then found the ratio of that to time.

My concern with that design was harvesting and using that energy.

The bat guano wheel is the sim rotating at 11.667 million rpm defying c.f. I think that's a useful invention and like some here I have no intentions of sharing anything other than I figured out how to do that.

Best of luck with your design. I'm in Shammy's camp on that design. Hitting a moving target isn't easy.

FWIMBW, the bat guano wheel self started. One reason I like wm2d is a user can define meters that measure any variable one might imagine. Also, it puts the answer in the form of a picture.

I like pictures. :)

[mryy]

First let me say thank you for sharing your design, YY. I can't ever recall any design using ballistics as you suggest.

Last century I sim'ed something that had one of the masses moving at about 5000 mph in about 4 seconds.

Another SIM I describe here:

....

If I could re- upload the image I would. Although I'm not the genius mathematician some profess to be, wm2d does a pretty good job.

I don't think this wheel is an answer, yet parts of it are remarkable. For instance, given the g-force that anything in that wheel would move. Yet if I could repost the gif you would see the tracking of the CoM shows it was still moving.

Finally, I reserve the right to be wrong with my arithmetic. I'm no professional cipher

5000 mph. That's over 7333 ft/sec. Batchit crazy alright. Anything is possible in a sim I guess.

I am thinking the flying red weights in my design are moving no more more than 100 ft/sec if even. The faster the better obviously.

Here's a diy spring gun using 8 mm ball bearings as projectiles. Action starts at 5:24. He claims it maintains power up to 5 m (~16 ft). Not bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP1GPqaJryE

It was 2 different sim's, YY. I calculated the 5000 mph by (I blush to admit it) resorting to trig functions to calculate the High Hippopotamus, then found the ratio of that to time.

My concern with that design was harvesting and using that energy.

The bat guano wheel is the sim rotating at 11.667 million rpm defying c.f. I think that's a useful invention and like some here I have no intentions of sharing anything other than I figured out how to do that.

Best of luck with your design. I'm in Shammy's camp on that design. Hitting a moving target isn't easy.

FWIMBW, the bat guano wheel self started. One reason I like wm2d is a user can define meters that measure any variable one might imagine. Also, it puts the answer in the form of a picture.

I like pictures. :)

Understood it was about 2 different sim's. I just commented on the first one typed in the space. The other one at 11.667 million rpm... the real bat guano!

And I respect your opinion of my concept.

[Fletcher]

B’s wheels weren’t gaining momentum from earth’s orbit or angular velocity from its spin via non contact forces.

Bessler's wheels were in direct contact with the earth.

An accelerating/swinging weight/mechanism inside the wheel can apply torque against the earth through the support posts. I guess we need a wheel mechanism that gains 'kick-back' momentum from the earth through the support posts.

I think that is a safe assumption Bill .. if we are looking for a quasi-energy (momentum-exchange) source for a runner that isn't "thermal" in origin.

I'm guessing B's. first working POP and perhaps the Gera wheel were supported on posts with frame sitting on the floor of the house. However as his wheels got bigger and more powerful according to his engravings (and also Borlach engraving) the wheel stands were anchored to both floor and ceiling. That always seemed slightly curious to me, a robust frame on the floor would still provide support if perhaps more bulky. Perhaps a very sturdy connection was needed to operate efficiently. And we have the comment of the Merseburg wheel stand showing an expanding and contracting crack as the wheel rotated, suggesting some force responsible for this.

Another curiosity to me is why B. never mounted any wheel on top of a 3 or 4 wheeled cart for example. He had the mechanical nous and know-how to easily do this. He could have made a simple lever friction clutch to a belt around the runner axle to the cart wheel axle, and demonstrated a real self-moving wheel ;7) - the first auto-mobile. Perhaps there was a reason this obvious and headline catching development never happened. If you wanted to sell a runner what a marketing opportunity missed. I'm guessing they HAD TO BE permanently affixed to an 'immovable object' to develop the full power potential, especially as size and power increased.

[mryy]

B’s wheels weren’t gaining momentum from earth’s orbit or angular velocity from its spin via non contact forces.

Bessler's wheels were in direct contact with the earth.

An accelerating/swinging weight/mechanism inside the wheel can apply torque against the earth through the support posts. I guess we need a wheel mechanism that gains 'kick-back' momentum from the earth through the support posts.

I think that is a safe assumption Bill .. if we are looking for a quasi-energy (momentum-exchange) source for a runner that isn't "thermal" in origin.

I'm guessing B's. first working POP and perhaps the Gera wheel were supported on posts with frame sitting on the floor of the house. However as his wheels got bigger and more powerful according to his engravings (and also Borlach engraving) the wheel stands were anchored to both floor and ceiling. That always seemed slightly curious to me, a robust frame on the floor would still provide support if perhaps more bulky. Perhaps a very sturdy connection was needed to operate efficiently. And we have the comment of the Merseburg wheel stand showing an expanding and contracting crack as the wheel rotated, suggesting some force responsible for this.

Another curiosity to me is why B. never mounted any wheel on top of a 3 or 4 wheeled cart for example. He had the mechanical nous and know-how to easily do this. He could have made a simple lever friction clutch to a belt around the runner axle to the cart wheel axle, and demonstrated a real self-moving wheel ;7) - the first auto-mobile. Perhaps there was a reason this obvious and headline catching development never happened. If you wanted to sell a runner what a marketing opportunity missed. I'm guessing they HAD TO BE permanently affixed to an 'immovable object' to develop the full power potential, especially as size and power increased.

A possible explanation for this is that the wheel is bouncing ever minutely during rotation. Suppose a lever swings up near 6:00 this can cause the wheel to lift a little. It then falls right after. It is plausible that the crack contracts with each lift and expands with each fall.

My 2 cents.

[Fletcher]

FWIW I don't think B. would have been thinking in terms of Conservation Of Momentums and COE and working backwards to a Prime Mover mech etc.

Yes, that was above his pay grade. He stumbled on it and attributed it to a revelation from a dream.

Perhaps he was just trying to find a way mechanically to mitigate back-torque (as we all do), which if he was successful would have the appearance of boosting the wheel forward.

B’s wheels weren’t gaining momentum from earth’s orbit or angular velocity from its spin via non contact forces.

Bessler's wheels were in direct contact with the earth. An accelerating/swinging weight/mechanism inside the wheel can apply torque against the earth through the support posts. I guess we need a wheel mechanism that gains 'kick-back' momentum from the earth through the support posts.

Any of the MT's do that. The problem remains finding a gain from the force (torque) pair. It can't be done. The application of the mechanism is thermal, I'm convinced.

What can be found in the Toy's Page that convinces you that the energy solution to his runners is "thermal" ?

[eccentrically1]

I don’t see any thing in the tp that supports thermal mechanisms, unless I’m missing it.
I do see it in the mt’s, however

[ovyyus]

Finding a thermal solution is almost as hard as finding a gravity solution. The only thermal solution that I can come up with, that might replicate Bessler's demonstrations, requires a fuel reservoir (energy source) and is an obvious 'true pm' fraud.

Earth's angular momentum is a legitimate energy source. That doesn't come by too often in the pm world :P

[mryy]

I added a casing to each lever. It is shaped like a fan with three open sides. I'd imagine that B. perforated the surface with holes for indirect access to the inside weights/lever via a stick/rod. The narrow end of the casing can be hung from a pivot on the wheel framework, and swivel back and forth to uncover the internals. I appreciated the presence of the casings after drawing them in. I feel they serve to "trap" the flying weight after it strikes the 2:00 lever. The weight could be bouncing off the interior walls and releasing its residual energy. Following which it drops into the lever cup. Without the casing the weight would probably fly out of the sides of the wheel. Uploaded diagram not drawn to accuracy.

You like?


Select Quotes:
"These parts are enclosed in a case and are coordinated with one another so that they not only never again reach an equilibrium (or point of rest) for themselves but incessantly seek with their admirably fast swing to move and drive on the axis of their vortices loads that are vertically applied from the outside and are proportional to the size of the housing." DT 20 Glenn Rouse (Al Bacon of Michigan)/Andrew Witter (Ted of Chicago nom de plumes) translation 1998

"Rather it has many compartments and is pierced all over with various holes." AP 326 (Collins)

"During rotation, one can clearly hear the weights hitting against the wooden boards. I was able to observe these boards through a slit. They are slightly warped." PM 70 Christian Wolff letter to Leibniz

"When running the weights generated/produced digging/mining and rumbling noises." [Weights banging inside the casings?] German Volker Keller website Dec 2007