Part Three is the Charm

[eccentrically1]

Uh-oh

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education ... cause.html

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/tidefrequency.html

[eccentrically1]

Uh-oh

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education ... cause.html

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/tidefrequency.html

[eccentrically1]

DP

[ovyyus]

If the earth didn't spin (like the moon doesn't spin) it would have a static tidal bulge pointing toward the moon. The tides are made by the earth rotating through (against) the tidal bulge, which requires work, which requires a source of energy, which is the stored momentum of the spinning earth.

[eccentrically1]

No.
The spin cycles the bulge around the planet.
The high and low tides are created by mostly the moons gravity. Read the links.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Tarsier79
Some how earlier, I missed your post. I suppose I should give it up. It's like I'm compelled to try an understand how Bessler's wheel worked. And, to try to explain it to others but, apparently to no avail. Certainly not to you or Fletcher; or anyone else, for that matter----------------------Sam

[Tarsier79]

Sam. You could work through your gravity theories and try to understand why they won't work, further gaining an understanding of gravity. Who knows, perhaps you might come across something we have all missed.

Everyone doesn't have to have the same opinion, and everyone doesn't have to have the same understanding. Your personal understanding of movement only comes from the amount of effort you put into advancing it.

Here is an example of giving energy to the wheel operating in a gravity field:
If I lift a weight 5cm on a 1M wheel, the wheel will spin. It doesn't matter in what part of the rotation I lift the weight, as long as I move it upwards. An "Ideal" lift will give an OB path.If I instead move the weight vertically at 3 and 9, it will describe a slight vertical oval. As soon as I stop lifting the weight, the wheel will grind to a halt. It doesn't matter how much I push the weight sideways... No rotation.....But what about the ballerina pulling in her arms?.....It doesn't matter when she does it, she will accelerate..... I believe in a gravity field she will accelerate, but unless she is also lifting weight she will also slowly come to a halt.

[johannesbender]

Sam. You could work through your gravity theories and try to understand why they won't work, further gaining an understanding of gravity. Who knows, perhaps you might come across something we have all missed.

Everyone doesn't have to have the same opinion, and everyone doesn't have to have the same understanding. Your personal understanding of movement only comes from the amount of effort you put into advancing it.

Here is an example of giving energy to the wheel operating in a gravity field:
If I lift a weight 5cm on a 1M wheel, the wheel will spin. It doesn't matter in what part of the rotation I lift the weight, as long as I move it upwards. An "Ideal" lift will give an OB path.If I instead move the weight vertically at 3 and 9, it will describe a slight vertical oval. As soon as I stop lifting the weight, the wheel will grind to a halt. It doesn't matter how much I push the weight sideways... No rotation.....But what about the ballerina pulling in her arms?.....It doesn't matter when she does it, she will accelerate..... I believe in a gravity field she will accelerate, but unless she is also lifting weight she will also slowly come to a halt.

True and pulling in arms require energy whether the spin axis is like a top or a wheel (vertical or horizontal oriented) neither of the 2 cases are free of charge , even if you consider that cf would be pulling them back out to reset , the closest MT to doing this with gravity would be MT 24-25 and weight still needs to lift in those examples.

[johannesbender]

On the toy page we have a complete cw cycle or closed loop , starting on the left we have lift to the top , then on the top middle we have movement to the right , then on the right side we have falling to the bottom , on the bottom middle we have movement to the left , then the cycle restarts with the lift on the left.

However these seem to be linear directions and not angular.

And whatever the source is , the lift(stork bill) does not come free or fully paid for when energy losses takes place, the drop(jacop ladder) however can be gravity exsclusive , momentum could be exclusive to the sidewards movements of the top and bottom hammermen toys , and lets say momentum could also substitude part of the lift total .

B said there is something special about the SB , if we held the TP in its original orientation we are looking at a lift function though.

[eccentrically1]

DP

[WaltzCee]

. .. .. .

Understood it was about 2 different sim's. I just commented on the first one typed in the space. The other one at 11.667 million rpm... the real bat guano!

And I respect your opinion of my concept.

wm2d is an excellent tool. I suspect the BSC wheel ran a rounding error around, however given the rpm's nothing should have moved.

Some try to harness c.f. yet it never is factored in to most people's calculations (my guess).

If you can get your hands on a copy of wm2d I'd recommend doing it.

Are you doing any building, YY?

[mryy]

. .. .. .

Understood it was about 2 different sim's. I just commented on the first one typed in the space. The other one at 11.667 million rpm... the real bat guano!

And I respect your opinion of my concept.

wm2d is an excellent tool. I suspect the BSC wheel ran a rounding error around, however given the rpm's nothing should have moved.

Some try to harness c.f. yet it never is factored in to most people's calculations (my guess).

If you can get your hands on a copy of wm2d I'd recommend doing it.

Are you doing any building, YY?

Not yet. I am currently brainstorming until I arrive at a design that I seems right and with which I am comfortable. I don't want to expend time and effort on a build based off on a faulty premise.

[mryy]

In this latest version I increased the projectile power of each lever by loading it with 2 yellow weights. This will allow the use of a higher spring constant at the fulcrum. A 12-lever wheel now carries 24 yellow weights in all. The free leg of the tip spring has been lengthened to provide greater trigger leverage the moment the red weight strikes at 2:00. The lever, blue guide and casing all hang from the same pivot. The blue guide swings freely. Diagram not drawn to accuracy.

You like?


Select quotes about the yellow weights:

"A craftwork must drive itself by many individual pieces of lead, which are now always two and two, one thing takes the outward position, so the other goes to the shaft, and so it alternates on and on." AP 291 Stewart translation

"At the experiment, before the wheel was set up at another place in different boards, he had taken an amount of weight out of the wheel which could have filled a considerable box, and in the received testimony he expressly admits that the weights are inside and are driven." 1716 - Critique 2 by Christian Wagner, printed in Leipzig after the 31 October 1715 Merseburg test (Collins)

Apologia Poem Puzzle - Collins translation
"The rain drips down. Snow falls."

"A great herd of fat, lazy, plump horses wanders aimlessly." [side note: lever's bottom compartments and blue guides resemble horse stables.]

"The cunning cat slinks silently along and snatches nice juicy mice."

"The dog creeps out of his kennel just as far as his chain will stretch. He wags his tail, creeps through the hoop and is rewarded with a pat on his paws by the stiff fops who watch him. He knows how to please by playing with his little toys and knick-knacks." [side note: lever's bottom compartments resemble paws; blue guides are the fops.]

[Fletcher]

You didn’t quote the whole post. Anything that wants to harness earth’s motion can’t be attached to it, either the spin or the orbital motion.

We have tides powered by earth's angular momentum. Oceans are 'attached' to the earth.

No, tides are powered by the moon and sun gravitational pull.

Gravity doesn't power the tides. Gravity can't power anything (uh-oh). Earth's angular momentum is constantly diminished by the work constantly done pushing it's mass through the moon and sun tidal bulges. Without Earth's rotation there are no tides.

Uh-oh

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education ... cause.html

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/tidefrequency.html

If the earth didn't spin (like the moon doesn't spin) it would have a static tidal bulge pointing toward the moon. The tides are made by the earth rotating through (against) the tidal bulge, which requires work, which requires a source of energy, which is the stored momentum of the spinning earth.

No.
The spin cycles the bulge around the planet.
The high and low tides are created by mostly the moons gravity. Read the links.

My 2 cents mind-model .. fwiw ..

We can view the problem from a Quantum Theory level; we can use Einstein's General Relativity Theory (includes gravity); or we can use Newtonian Mechanics to put a microscope on the problem.

I'll stick with Newtonian Mechanics for celestial bodies and keep the analysis simplified to aid visualization.

The moon is gravity locked to the earth. The moon circulates around the earth and this takes about 28 days, relative to the sun. The earth completes a rotation in about 24 hours. Both the moon and the sun rotate in the same direction from east to west (as we see it on earth). Therefore the earth is rotating much faster than the moon, by a large margin.

Using Newtonian Mechanics the earths center/core is approximately the focal point for its gravitational attraction i.e. gravity acceleration ('g-e'). The same applies for the moons gravity acceleration position ('g-m'), approximately.

Water finds its own level. So the sea level height has a GPE based on earths gravitational acceleration (9.81 m/s^2), not considering Cp's etc and moon not overhead. When the moon passes overhead it applies its own gravitational acceleration (much less than earths) .. At the position of least distance between the earth and the moons surfaces there is a netting out of accelerations in opposite directions. So the acceleration due to 'g-e' at the earth sea surface is slightly less than 9.81 m/s^2 (i.e. smaller). The sea level rises at that position to retain the previous GPE (mgh) total, and this is an approximate 1 meter high tide rise we see and measure. The tidal bulge.

Since the earth is spinning faster than the moon the tidal bulge moves over the surface of the sea. What is observed is that the tidal bulge is about 10 degrees ahead of the closest position between earth and moon in a straight line i.e. it is advanced. This is caused by the spinning earth pushing the tidal bulge forward as it revolves underneath it. So the earths angular momentum is doing work to advance the tidal bulge. In turn the tidal upwelling etc causes frictions between molecules in the 'wave' which wastes energy as heat losses etc. The earths angular momentum is slowly being depleted as its angular velocity is slowly decreasing, resulting in the days lengthening over millennia.

At the same time with the tidal bulge advancing it has mass ('g') of its own to consider. The earths COG is not at the core center (center of a circle) but slightly displaced to one side. So the line of communication between the earths center of 'g-e' and the moons center of 'g-m' is not perpendicular to each but at a slight angle. Thus when vectored there is a resultant vector giving a forward direction pull. This sees the moon increasing its orbit radius over millennia at about 4 cms per year currently.

IOW's Angular Momentum between the earth and moon couple is conserved - one giveth and the other taketh.

And the seas are attached to the earth whilst this happens.

IMO !

ETA : Newton's .... f = ma .. & .. F = G(m1m2)/r2

[Fletcher]

Instead of 2 yellow weights per lever mryy couldn't you just double the mass of 1 yellow weight, or have I missed something important ?