eccentrically1 wrote:“fletcher” wrote: IOW’s Angular Momentum between the earth and moon couple is conserved - one giveth and the other taketh.
And the seas are attached to the earth whilst this happens.
Thanks for the mind model fletcher.
It seems the bulge formed by the moon and sun’s gravity is what we can agree is the reason we have high and low tides. I’m not saying the gravity does any work on the water, it all nets to zero over the course of the day, like what happens to gravity wheels.
If there were no moon, there would be no bulge, no high tide for the spin of the earth to have to push, fwiw.
The problem we still have is to exchange momentum or KE between two objects there has to be a difference between them in their velocities or their momentum. That’s the case for the earth/moon/tide situation.
It’s not the case for B’s wheels. IMO.
ECC1 wrote:Sorry, I forgot to reiterate that the seas aren't the object that gains in this relationship. It's the (unattached) moon.
OK .. so we know King tides are caused by the moon and sun alignment. In my previous model I said this was due to a reduced net local acceleration 'g' ('g-e' - 'g-m') at the seas surface at that alignment. And that sea level GPE (mgh) is maintained (simplified) according to local net 'g'. KIng tides support this view i.e. net 'g' at alignment is 'g-e' - 'g-m' - 'g-s' and the sea surface rises even higher (still maintaining GPE (mgh)) - it might be pedantic but the moon and suns gravity isn't pulling the mass of the seas upwards - more the earths gravity is pulling less hard downwards at that alignment.
We accept that from recorded observations that the tidal bulge is advanced on that alignment by about 10 degrees in the direction of rotation. The cause is the undersea frictions of the earth spinning beneath it (and slowing the earth spin rate) and the frictions pushing the bulge forward - this is a
wave, albeit a very wide one (there is an inertial lag for the wave height to reduce due to molecular cohesiveness and hydrogen bonding etc). There are friction energy losses etc. At the same time thru vector analysis we deduce and measure that the moon is increasing its average radius of orbit as its linear speed is increased. Quid Pro Quo !
Yes,
the seas aren't the object of the gains in this relationship. [Altho they do cause energy losses to the coupling system. And my model demonstrates the Quid Pro Quo of Momentum Exchange as I see it.] You say the moon is "unattached" - I might disagree in the sense that while there is no obvious physical attachment their gravity's mutual attractions cause a Centripetal force (center seeking) attachment, akin to an elastic band connection as a metaphor.
OK .. my next mind model to consider. A wave (very wide one) is formed from the 'moving' (relative to earths surface) tidal bulge - this circulates around the planet continuously. We imagine a surfer riding this wave around the planet (much like a surfer rides a tidal bore up rivers and bays). The surfer is raised up by floatation force (buoyancy) i.e. his mass displaces equal mass of water. The rider rides up and down and across the circulating wave forever (never falling off or taking a break) - he has gained and maintains KE and overcomes all frictions losses including air drag etc. These energy losses are far greater than the original GPE he received as he was raised up by the wave traveling beneath him.
So now we jump to an idea I suggested decades ago - anchor a large floatation body (with large displacement) e.g. could be a large hull or floating dock or jetty for instance so it can rise and fall vertically only. Connect to the hull bottom a cable which travels down thru a pulley block (kloben ;7) ) (anchored to seabed and immovable) and back onto land or indeed the displacement body itself. The cable is wound around a generator pulley. As the body rises and falls as the tide rises and falls beneath it it uses the displacement floatation force to generate electricity. That is -- continual mechanical energy is used to give continual electrical energy output.
The floatation device generating this rise and fall and electricity generation (in both directions) is attached to the earth system and IS the object of the Angular Momentum Exchange Mechanics AND demonstrates real "gains" in the relationship here on earth are possible !
The energy of the surfer drag and the electrical energy outputs must come from somewhere - they come at the expense of the earths spin rate declining over millennia.
I believe there are no such tidal wave devices to generate electricity but from wind driven waves rather than tidal waves per se, IINM.
ETA : the floatation and the sea, and tidal mechanics, are intermediaries, conduits, steps to a predictable outcome.
And NO I'm not suggesting B. used fluids or floatation etc to produce excess thrust.
