Part Three is the Charm

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mryy
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Re: Part Three is the Charm

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WaltzCee wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:52 pm What software did you use to draw this,

....

YY?
I use paint.net, an improved and more powerful version of the very rudimentary MS Paint. Here's a working download:

https://www.dotpdn.com/downloads/pdn.html

The most important feature is found in its "Layers" box. The layers behave like draftman's semitransparent vellum sheets stacked together. Drawn images in the layers superimposed over one another. They can be rearranged even merged. Make the layers appear or disappear by checking/unchecking. You can add (or delete) as many layers as you want in your project. They make editing your drawing very convenient! Make sure the layer you are working on is active; it is highlighted in dark blue. Otherwise you end up working on the wrong layer! Another useful feature is the "History" box to undo/redo any action or mistake. If you ever run into a problem try Crtl + D to reset. Often it has to do with an uncompleted selection.

To export an image file (jpg, png, etc.) check only the layers you want to see. Then click "Save as" (not "Save" which is for saving your project) under top File menu. Select image type (jpg, png, etc) and give it a name. Review the save settings on the next popup window before hitting OK. Click "Flatten" with the following popup.

Playing around with the software is my best advice.
Last edited by mryy on Tue Dec 20, 2022 4:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Part Three is the Charm

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I use paint.net, an improved and more powerful version of the very rudimentary MS Paint. Here's a working download:
MS paint is looking a lot like gimp. I haven't used gimp in ages.

It seems as if you did a 2d projection of a 3d translation. That's way cool.

The tools available today for average folk are mind blowing. One downside I see is the good ideas are going to be ripped off by the giants like MS.

Who ever solves this will be lucky to even get credit for the idea. Maybe after they're dead.

maybe
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mryy
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Re: Part Three is the Charm

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WaltzCee wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 4:58 pm
I use paint.net, an improved and more powerful version of the very rudimentary MS Paint. Here's a working download:
MS paint is looking a lot like gimp. I haven't used gimp in ages.

It seems as if you did a 2d projection of a 3d translation. That's way cool.

The tools available today for average folk are mind blowing. One downside I see is the good ideas are going to be ripped off by the giants like MS.

Who ever solves this will be lucky to even get credit for the idea. Maybe after they're dead.

maybe
Yeah I started with 2d drawings -- the ones on the left side. I duplicated each one and moved its twin somewhat off to the side. Connected the two with diagonal line(s) then tilted the resulting image. Wallah 3d illusion.
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Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by mryy »

I matched components of my design to items in the Toys Page (TP) shown in the upload.

As many here are aware, the number 5 (and Roman numeral V) feature heavily throughout B.'s works not surprisingly TP. He expresses it in other fashion as well such as the 4:1 clue (4 lbs rising, 1 lb falling for a total of 5 lbs).

What does number 5 mean? I strongly believe it is a carbon copy, a symbol, of the Prime Mover apparatus. Take a lever and its casing and trace a line about them and you end up with a number 5. See upload. The number 5 even conveys kinetic information about the Prime Mover. A swinging lever creates an arc that is represented by the "bowl" of the number 5. Two 5s (55) represent a set of lever and its guide. It may even hint at the pair of mirror image levers in a bidirectional wheel.
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eccentrically1
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Re: Part Three is the Charm

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fletcher wrote:So now we jump to an idea I suggested decades ago - anchor a large floatation body (with large displacement) e.g. could be a large hull or floating dock or jetty for instance so it can rise and fall vertically only. Connect to the hull bottom a cable which travels down thru a pulley block (kloben ;7) ) (anchored to seabed and immovable) and back onto land or indeed the displacement body itself. The cable is wound around a generator pulley. As the body rises and falls as the tide rises and falls beneath it it uses the displacement floatation force to generate electricity. That is -- continual mechanical energy is used to give continual electrical energy output.

The floatation device generating this rise and fall and electricity generation (in both directions) is attached to the earth system and IS the object of the Angular Momentum Exchange Mechanics AND demonstrates real "gains" in the relationship here on earth are possible !
Here is the A.I. Chat response.


Could a floating structure, anchored to the sea floor and able to rise and fall with the tide, generate electricity in a practical way?



It is theoretically possible to generate electricity using a floating structure that rises and falls with the tide, but it is not currently a practical or economically viable method of producing power.

One possible way to generate electricity using a floating structure is to use tidal turbines, which are similar to wind turbines but are placed in the water and driven by the movement of the tides rather than the wind. Tidal turbines can be placed on a floating platform that is anchored to the sea floor and rises and falls with the tide, allowing the turbines to capture the energy of the tides as they flow in and out.

However, there are several challenges to using tidal turbines in this way. One of the main challenges is that the tides are not a consistent or reliable source of energy, as they vary in strength and frequency depending on the location and the time of year. Tidal turbines also need to be placed in areas with strong tidal currents in order to be effective, which can be difficult to find in some locations.

In addition, the cost of building and maintaining a floating platform and tidal turbines is likely to be high, and the electricity generated by this method would likely be more expensive than electricity produced by other methods such as hydroelectric power. As a result, tidal power is still in the early stages of development and is not yet widely used as a source of electricity.

How would you define this floating structure as harvesting energy? Is it harvesting energy from the earth's angular momentum, or is it harvesting tidal power as a result of the moon and sun's gravitational pull on the ocean?



A floating structure that rises and falls with the tide and generates electricity using tidal turbines would be considered a way of harvesting tidal power. Tidal power is a form of renewable energy that is generated by harnessing the energy of the tides, which are the rise and fall of sea levels caused by the gravitational forces of the Moon and the Sun on Earth.

The floating structure would not be directly harnessing the Earth's angular momentum for energy generation. The Earth's angular momentum is the result of its rotation around its axis and does not directly cause the tides. Instead, the tides are caused by the gravitational forces of the Moon and the Sun on the Earth, which cause the water in the oceans to be slightly more attracted to them, creating the tidal bulge.

Tidal power is a distinct form of energy that is generated by capturing the energy of the tides as they move in and out, rather than by harnessing the Earth's angular momentum. Tidal power can be generated in a variety of ways, including the use of tidal barrages, tidal fences, and tidal turbines, which are placed in the water and driven by the movement of the tides.
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Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by Fletcher »

Accelerations and Forces are vectors .. therefore they can be added and subtracted .. a - b = c

When a tidal bulge forms from c's effect it is not instantaneous because the seas have inertia (it takes time to rise up, and revert down). Additionally the water molecules have an attractive force at the atomic level (that's how a siphon works). And currents (i.e. motions of surrounding material) are set up driving water to the site of the bulge to increase its volume.

Simple thought experiment .. imagine an inflated balloon as the earth. Place a dock against it and pump out some air pressure. The balloon will bulge into the compartment of lower pressure. This is because the air pressure on the rest of the balloon surface is unchanged. It bulges the balloon until the pressures are equalized outside the compartment and inside. In a similar way the earth has a thin coating of oceans. Their level is set by earth's normalized 'g' (simplified analogy). It bulges where the acceleration is less than 'g'. And normal 'g' pulling downwards everywhere else around the globe squeezes the volume towards the bulge site (water can not be compressed). You will have heard that water finds the course of least resistance.

Next look at a black hole ripping apart a close orbiting star and devouring it. It strips away the outer layers of mass and funnels it into the event horizon and consumes this spiraling mass growing its own. Because its 'g' is greater than the stars 'g' at the stars surface there is a net 'g' gradient established to the black hole and the mass 'flows' to it. Prior to that happening the black hole causes a huge tidal bulge in the star, but not yet close enough to start ripping its mass away and flow it to itself.
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Re: Part Three is the Charm

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The other interesting thing about the bulge is it takes about a month to get around the globe,
And then there’s a stationary bulge at the equator from the earth’s spin.
The tides are so complex because of the factors like coastlines and land masses and temperatures and weather systems.
Anyway, I’m sticking with my opinion.
Last edited by eccentrically1 on Wed Dec 21, 2022 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part Three is the Charm

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Fletcher wrote:Prior to that happening the black hole causes a huge tidal bulge in the star, but not yet close enough to start ripping its mass away and flow it to itself.
AFAIK, a tidal bulge is associated with all gravitating masses. The moon has a tidal bulge.

eccentrically1, no work is done maintaining a static tidal bulge (gravity can't do work). But spinning a mass through it's own tidal bulge obviously does require work and that work is done at the expense of the stored angular momentum of the spinning mass. When angular momentum is zero the tidal bulge is static, no work is being done, and no tides can form. A moving tidal bulge is a load on the stored angular momentum powering its motion. IMO.
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Re: Part Three is the Charm

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Re: Part Three is the Charm

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ovyyus wrote:
Clearly it is possible to harness earth's angular momentum (spin) to power a mechanism attached to the earth (besides the tides).

Therefore, in principle at least, it should be possible to harness this same energy source within the confines of a wheel attached to the earth.

That's the working theory !

Since gravity can't do Work it doesn't leave too many options for an energy source for a mechanical runner, imo.

ovyyus wrote:
Question: I'm sitting on the rim of a spinning playground round-a-bout... what mechanisms/movements could I employ to slow down the angular momentum of the round-a-bout without touching the ground?
No physical contact (mechanics in contact) with the ground ! - sounds like something a Toy's Page Prime Mover might do -
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Re: Part Three is the Charm

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Fletcher wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:16 pm No physical contact (mechanics in contact) with the ground ! - sounds like something a Toy's Page Prime Mover might do -
You could transfer annular momentum from the roundabout to subcomponents that store the annular momentum. Therefore the roundabout slows down.

Now the trick is finding a dynamic way to hook the increase linear momentum of gravity into the rotating subcomponents?

Concider variable moments of inertia.

Regards
[MP] Mobiles that perpetuate - external energy allowed
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Re: Part Three is the Charm

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ovyyus wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:00 am
Fletcher wrote:Prior to that happening the black hole causes a huge tidal bulge in the star, but not yet close enough to start ripping its mass away and flow it to itself.
AFAIK, a tidal bulge is associated with all gravitating masses. The moon has a tidal bulge.

eccentrically1, no work is done maintaining a static tidal bulge (gravity can't do work). But spinning a mass through it's own tidal bulge obviously does require work and that work is done at the expense of the stored angular momentum of the spinning mass. When angular momentum is zero the tidal bulge is static, no work is being done, and no tides can form. A moving tidal bulge is a load on the stored angular momentum powering its motion. IMO.
I posted that I wasn't saying gravity is doing any work earlier in the thread. Here is the science you have to deal with:
A.I. response:

So if I understand correctly, the tidal bulge is not in any way responsible for slowing down earth's rotation (angular momentum)?

Correct, the tidal bulge is not responsible for slowing down the earth's rotation. The earth's rotation is primarily influenced by the conservation of angular momentum, which states that the total angular momentum of a system will remain constant unless an external force acts to change it. In the case of the earth, the primary external force that can change its angular momentum is the gravitational pull of the moon and the sun.

The tidal bulge itself is caused by the gravitational force of the moon on the earth, which causes the oceans to be "pulled" towards the moon. This creates a tidal bulge on the side of the earth facing the moon, and a corresponding tidal bulge on the opposite side of the earth. The earth's rotation does not affect the size or shape of the tidal bulge, but it does affect the position of the tidal bulge relative to the land.

In summary, the tidal bulge is not responsible for slowing down the earth's rotation. The earth's rotation is primarily influenced by the conservation of angular momentum and the gravitational pull of the moon and the sun. The tidal bulge is caused by the gravitational force of the moon on the earth, and the earth's rotation affects the position of the tidal bulge relative to the land.
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Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by Fletcher »

Uh-oh .. Never trust an AI, while its still in diapers ..

I did a bit of searching around for you. The whole things a good read. AI hasn't got to it yet.

Particularly read the sections on ..

Tidal Locking of the Moon

Tidal Braking of the Earth

Lunar Recession

https://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/po ... tides.html
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Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by Leafy »

Supposed we have earth, ocean, and moon systems

Moon creates bulge, and we build a piston and cylinder on the other side of the earth.

When the cylinder faced the moon, the bulge rise up and push the piston.
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I would trade everything to see her again, even a perpetual motion machine…
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Re: Part Three is the Charm

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We: “earth? Did you push the piston?”
Earth: “no, I’m just gravity”
Moon: “ditto”
We: “if you didn’t do it, and you didn’t do it, then who did?”
I would trade everything to see her again, even a perpetual motion machine…
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