Zeroing in on Bessler's wheel

[johannesbender]

From the drawing (if i understand it correct) it would appear that the mass center should be below the axle , and when you turn it by hand for example , it should still keep the mass center below the axle as nothing would change in height nor distance in any direction , and there should be no tendency for torque on either side.

[Sam Peppiatt]

johannesbender,
I agree completely. It should be bottom heavy, shouldn't it and I would have thought, very bottom heavy. But, I swear, it's not, It's perfectly balanced. All the way around too, not just when it's vertical. How can that happen? Where is a scientist when I need one----------------Sam

PS A 2 oz. will cause the wheel to rotate at any position.

[Leafy]

I can only solved half of the problem thx to the picture, but it is strange indeed. Need to think.

[Wassup]

johannesbender,
I agree completely. It should be bottom heavy, shouldn't it and I would have thought, very bottom heavy. But, I swear, it's not, It's perfectly balanced. All the way around too, not just when it's vertical. How can that happen? Where is a scientist when I need one----------------Sam

PS A 2 oz. will cause the wheel to rotate at any position.

Allah n, it's symmetrical. 1 - cos^2 = sin^2. Symmetrical.
2 * a cos 60 = 1. Symmetrical.
This has nothing to do with the keel effect because it is not bottom heavy.
However it is symmetrical. And unfortunately this is not a math class where
symmetry vs asymmetry is discussed.
Any real or implied discussion needs to start with Newton's laws of motion and how mechanics
are limited by those laws. Can't discuss it then we're back in 2011. That is what using a mechanical means
and gravity requires understanding.
And Allah n, if a person doesn't understand how to do simple tasks online then them trying to understand
Newton and his laws of motion just isn't possible. I think this is why I understand how perpetual motion is
possible when others do not. I can upload an image, etc. I understand how the laws of physics and their
mechanical representation allows for an understanding of engineering.
In my thread from 2011 or 2007 that Walt Cee brought up, what does a ball bearing rolling down a 1/2 pipe
like they use for snowboarding matter? What does science have to do with the velocity of some person
going down a half pipe? I understand that. Without science there is no Half Pipe. And that is where a basic
understanding of perpetual motion starts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he03dVkhLTM&t=2s

Everything in his run has a common denominator Allah n, it's all about conservation of momentum. Perpetual
motion has fewer variables. At the same time, what if the Half Pipe were on level ground. What then? What
people need to understand. I don't make the rules. If you want to ride a horse, you do need to know how to
ride a horse. You have to learn. This is no different.

[Fletcher]

From the drawing (if i understand it correct) it would appear that the mass center [ COG / COM ] should be below the axle , and when you turn it by hand for example , it should still keep the mass center below the axle as nothing would change in height [ GPE ] nor distance in any direction , and there should be no tendency for torque on either side.

Pic on right rotated 45 degrees.

Red drawn in line connects COM of disks. In the middle of red line is the system COG / COM shown as a red circle. It is below the axle (balanced). When rotated the system COG / COM stays in the same place (balanced) i.e. no torque.

Note : rather than make a drum for the disks to revolve in I just made a green pivot to attach them to so that they are always at their lowest position in the drum.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi Fletcher,
That's what it's doing right enough. However, with the center of mass below the axle, how can the wheel be balanced? I guess what you are saying, the rollers are rotating around an imaginary pivot point but, still that point is below the axle---------------------------Sam

[Leafy]

Interesting, you may have found something worth treasure Sam.

[Wassup]

And this is all because someone can't upload a picture? Are you guys serous?

p.s., is Allah n a damsel in distress that you're all saving? Someone posts but
has no idea how to upload an image? Enjoy helping "her".

Sam, who are you? You created an account for this website but have no idea how
to upload a picture. How old are you? And good news, this website is for people like you.

[Sam Peppiatt]

leafy, Yes, I think so. The weight(s) can be all the way out and down at 6:00 and the wheel is still balanced, which then returns the weight back up to the top, free of charge. No lifting things back up. Can that be possible? I think I may have wigged out-----------------------------Sam

[Leafy]

No Sam, others are right that it is a balanced system and energy down = energy up.

What interesting is the path of the two masses keep alternating their distances from the wheel center. Never seen a dynamic as such. I haven’t figured out an application yet but it’s beautiful.

[Sam Peppiatt]

leafy, Right, as it is, it will remain stationary. The Idea now is to make it top, or at least, side heavy by installing a short plate in the drum on a tangent. Like so: With the roller at the top / 12:00, the plate or shoe would be fixed into the bottom of the drum. A flat spot if you will. For it to work, the roller has to roll up onto the flat plate and, continue past top dead center, (TDC). Then, it should roll clear out to the rim of the drum, causing the wheel to be temporarily side heavy and hopefully cause it to turn.

Normally, when the roller got back to 6:00, the wheel would become bottom heavy. But now, not only is it not bottom heavy, it goes back to being perfectly balanced and, easily returns back to the top-------------------------------------Sam

[Fletcher]

Sam .. I've reduced the rollers down to a small diameter. Now they are more like point masses and its easier to see what is happening. Now you can see that if the wheel is pushed to any position the system COG / COM DOES NOT MOVE. It stays in the exact same position below the axle where it is balanced (i.e. balanced = no torque).

Normally for a conservative OOB wheel that shifts weights the system COM can move to each side of the vertical line beneath the axle (balance position). Then it wants to move back there and stay there. Yours is always there.

[Wassup]

Sam .. I've reduced the rollers down to a small diameter. Now they are more like point masses and its easier to see what is happening. Now you can see that if the wheel is pushed to any position the system COG / COM DOES NOT MOVE. It stays in the exact same position below the axle where it is balanced (i.e. balanced = no torque).

Normally for a conservative OOB wheel that shifts weights the system COM can move to each side of the vertical line beneath the axle (balance position). Then it wants to move back there and stay there. Yours is always there.

He is what this forum is about. He/she can't upload a picture. I'm hated because I posted actual work.
Who really builds something, right? It's a joke and I get it.

[Wassup]

You guys have proved this. Who can't upload an image in 2022? Your friend.
After this, it gets worse. But you support "what is the internet"? That is your
friend.

[Fletcher]

Now it's like 2 pendulums Sam ..

I added the blue circle to show the track of the pivots in any position.