Part Three is the Charm

[Leafy]

The irony is some of us think we’re Bessler while we’re just friction.

Friction wants to removes other frictions. Lol

[ovyyus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=647Km71ZxOM&t=3s

Interesting forced precession demonstration by the late and great Eric Laithwaite starts at 9 minutes into video.

[Fletcher]

... I look forward to hearing about other options. However, it does seem curious that Bessler commented that children play with his pm principle in the street. Bessler also included a hand drawn and notated image of a spinning top on his toys page which translates, "Children's game in which there is something extraordinary for anyone who knows how to apply the game in a different way."

Exactly Bill .. the Toy's Page (TP) and the children playing in the lane with his superior force (as said by Wagner) are never far from my thoughts. And the premise that the TP contains a separate Prime Mover entity, otherwise the bucolic ball-shifting MT's 44 and 48 could never be made to be runners by a gravity-only weight-shifting method alone.

Bill .. I forgot to mention this quote by B., and its importance to me --- John Collin's DT

".. this principle, in itself so simple, and yet at the same time so deeply hidden, of everlasting motion, described in total detail and in mathematical simplicity, in praise of God’s boundless wisdom, and for the benefit of the entire world. - DT pg 210"

(the principle of everlasting motion) so deeply hidden that no one had ever before found it, and exploited it. At the same time reputedly very simple. And, as you point out the TP has a hand drawn spinning top added to it, in upright spinning mode. A simple spinning top ! Not much of a clue to Classical Mechanics but perhaps symbolically important. That and the missing pull ropes imo.

Altho I've said a lot of things I'll say this again. I think the spinning top was a belated after-thought. When, after success, certain things and connections occurred to him retrospectively, perhaps.

As I did say I think B. was looking (as we all do) for mechanical means to reduce back-torque (i.e. asymmetric torque / mitigate back-torque / positive net torque / mechanically gain in momentum) and his mechanical contrivance was at last successful. Only later did he add the spinning top to the TP as a tip-of-the-hat and a future nod-and-wink to his starting to crystalize and fill-in the blanks after-thoughts etc. IMO !

[Fletcher]

Of course, a runners asymmetric torque capability and, a runners momentum exchange with the earth to gain in momentum, are ultimately one-and-the-same thing in my book, within the framework of Newtonian and Classical Physics.

Happy New Year and prosperous 2023 to everyone !

[ovyyus]

Bill .. I forgot to mention this quote by B., and its importance to me --- John Collin's DT

".. this principle, in itself so simple, and yet at the same time so deeply hidden, of everlasting motion, described in total detail and in mathematical simplicity, in praise of God’s boundless wisdom, and for the benefit of the entire world. - DT pg 210"

Earth's rotation, it was right there under our feet all this time! I'd feel cheated if I just handed you 100,000 thalers :D

(the principle of everlasting motion) so deeply hidden that no one had ever before found it, and exploited it. At the same time reputedly very simple. And, as you point out the TP has a hand drawn spinning top added to it, in upright spinning mode. A simple spinning top ! Not much of a clue to Classical Mechanics but perhaps symbolically important. That and the missing pull ropes imo.

Maybe a simple gyro action with no ropes? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cr98yy8GLA Spinning a weight on a track is pretty simple (lights are optional). Magnets are obviously not needed if the free-to-move spinning weight (the pm itself?) runs inside 2 tracks (as suggested by the two lines on the TP top drawing?). It might also explain why Bessler wouldn't allow his wheel to be turned faster than it's own maximum rpm because the weights would fall off their tracks... hmm... all good fun shooting at stars on new years eve, cheers, here we go round again!

[johannesbender]

heres a video on it https://youtu.be/HsgG00puMWo

[Leafy]

So many ideas of spinning a gyroscope. Ropes, motor, bars.

I think bars are more authentic, but it depends on each of us preference I guess.

[mryy]

Here's another design of the master lever that further simplifies construction. Its profile (and tail movement) is more faithful to the depiction of the dog in the AP poem. This design leaves a narrow gap between the lever arm and leg of the upper spring. The gray metal plate slides snugly into the gap and stays in place without needing welding (hopefully). The cord may be secured to the wound loop of the upper spring too.

And HNY !

[Leafy]

Now that I pay attention to the design, the master lever does resemble a dog. Interesting.

[Leafy]

I sometimes kneel down and bark for my daughter because she’s just a kid and I’m her father.

[Leafy]

I just don’t understand if we’re guilty of being the carpenter, then who is the Walrus? I don’t think it matters now, we can start a new chapter.

Happy New Year

[eccentrically1]

Or, at least; a 'Prime Earth Slow Her Down' entity.

The difference, as I see it, is in the examples given by ChatGPT e.g. throw, jump, spin, and mine - accelerate and brake (decelerate) energy must be first given to the system.

E.g. spin up the flywheel (electrical to mechanical energy) before braking it and transferring momentum to the earth; use muscle energy (gained via photosynthesis and metabolism etc) to throw the object and transfer AM to earth. In each case real mechanical energy must be first put into the system from some real source or downstream transformation of energy into usable form.

In the Prime Mover scenario that isn't necessary imo. The earth has AM and RKE in abundance (scale - virtually unlimited). We don't need to put any energy into the system because it is already merrily revolving and wobbling away. Just extract some rotational energy for mechanical Work, and the earth won't even notice given all else that's contributing to her slowing down over millennia.

Which example do you mean? Moon earth? Or tidal platform ? Or another one?

[eccentrically1]

Great year everyone! Here’s to a better one.

[Fletcher]

... In the Prime Mover scenario that isn't necessary imo. The earth has AM and RKE in abundance (scale - virtually unlimited). We don't need to put any energy into the system because it is already merrily revolving and wobbling away. Just extract some rotational energy for mechanical Work, and the earth won't even notice given all else that's contributing to her slowing down over millennia.

Which example do you mean? Moon earth? Or tidal platform ? Or another one?

Sorry .. I don't understand your question ?

B's. Prime Mover was imo a wheel interior mechanical device, and separate entity. Just another 'simple machine' that like other simple machines did not, and could not break the Law of Levers. i.e it did not lift more for less / less Work in than Work out, etc etc. Yet it was so arranged that it "responded" to the earths movements, and in turn it imparted a thrusting movement to the wheel transforming it into a runner i.e. momentum/RKE transfer from earth rotation, to Prime Mover, to runner wheel revolutions and gain in AM, imo.

[eccentrically1]

Or, at least; a 'Prime Earth Slow Her Down' entity.

The difference, as I see it, is in the examples given by ChatGPT e.g. throw, jump, spin, and mine - accelerate and brake (decelerate) energy must be first given to the system.

E.g. spin up the flywheel (electrical to mechanical energy) before braking it and transferring momentum to the earth; use muscle energy (gained via photosynthesis and metabolism etc) to throw the object and transfer AM to earth. In each case real mechanical energy must be first put into the system from some real source or downstream transformation of energy into usable form.

In the Prime Mover scenario that isn't necessary imo. The earth has AM and RKE in abundance (scale - virtually unlimited). We don't need to put any energy into the system because it is already merrily revolving and wobbling away. Just extract some rotational energy for mechanical Work, and the earth won't even notice given all else that's contributing to her slowing down over millennia.

Which example do you mean? Moon earth? Or tidal platform ? Or another one?

The differences in the chat and your example?