Part Three is the Charm

A Bessler, gravity, free-energy free-for-all. Registered users can upload files, conduct polls, and more...

Moderator: scott

Post Reply
User avatar
Fletcher
Addict
Addict
Posts: 8715
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:03 am
Location: NZ

Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by Fletcher »

Tarsier79 wrote:
The slingshot maneuver, just like the blackbird and any other engine requires an energy differential to work.

The slingshot uses differential KE, the blackbird uses energy differential of the wind and land.

Besslers wheel was traveling at the same speed as the surface of the earth, so no energy differential exists in rotation or KE between the axle and the earth.

Once it starts spinning, it now spins at a different speed, so I guess there is a differential, but any energy is extracted from the differential, which will slow down the wheel much more than the earth.

I am struggling to see how we would transfer usable power to the wheel from earth rotation.
With the greatest respect Tarsier, B. said his secret PM Principle was deeply hidden. So I am not surprised you or anybody else is struggling to see how energy could mechanically be taken from the earths rotation and given to an anchored wheel so that it was self-moving and "ever-lasting" rotation.

I offered up the momentum exchange theory explanation as it is currently my simplest and favoured option for how a runner could receive energy to output as external Work, and remain self-moving. That doesn't mean it must be correct. There are one or two other possible mathematical explanations I'm keeping in back-of-mind but at this stage they seem less cogent possibilities.

Anyhoo .. yes, there must be some sort of physical differential or gradient to be exploited it would seem, for any AM exchange or transfer theory to work.

It took me a long time to come up with what i think is a viable mechanical means to reduce back-torque (in my book visibly and for all intents-and-purposes the same as an exchange of momentum from earth to wheel theory).

The "back-box" had to have some mechanics inside it. It could not break Archimedes Law of Levers - yet somehow outwardly the wheel appeared to have asymmetric torque which allowed it to quickly accelerate to operational rpm, and do Work (output mechanical energy).

Needless to say the Toy's Page (TP) was my first port of call - 6 toys and 5 children's games. And we know there is something special behind Stork's-Bills (SB's) BUT .. they are just linear levers (simple machines) that also don't and can't break the Law of Levers. Therefore it must be their in-situ use within the Prime Mover assembly that is special. Perhaps they helped establish that gradient we seek ?!

At this point I acknowledge again that I could be wrong about my device and its capabilities. I haven't built it as yet, and simmed some parts of it. My current optimism may turn out to be entirely misplaced. However I consider myself reasonably balanced, with a reasonable knowledge of B. and his wheels, and some experience in simming and building behind me. I don't get fooled by a device too often but it does happen. Fortunately my mind-sim is still working fine but it doesn't always have to adhere to the rules of physics (mostly it does), as we all know too well ;7)

Soooo .. moving along .. I have what appears to me to be an extraordinary mechanical device that I have never seen before. It is a reworking of something I simmed a few years ago that I thought had potential for further refinement and development, and I finally got back to it. It is made up of parts from the TP. And if it works as I intend it will reduce back-torque manifesting as a forward thrusting-force to the wheel proper. And if eventual real-world experiments confirm this I will be prepared to investigate other sources of input energy to the wheel environment that is ultimately outputted as mechanical energy. Atm it is easier to go with the Ockham's Razor choice in front of me, of momentum transfer / quasi energy transference.

What I categorically know is that gravity force is not an energy source, and is conservative !
Last edited by Fletcher on Mon Jan 02, 2023 9:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
mryy
Enthusiast
Enthusiast
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:08 pm

Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by mryy »

Tarsier79 wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 6:54 pm Mryy. Do you understand the problems MT10 has by itself? Do you understand what compressing a spring will do to the levers and their movement?

There are two main directions to attack this problem. One is by solving mechanical issues, the other is by solving what has to happen.
More weights are on the left side. But they are closer to the axle than the fewer ones on the right, so the the law of leverage may still favor the right. Tarsier's energy budget says there is no surplus. It's a tethered wheel (surprise!) -- all weights are in constant contact with the system. Gravity and friction are unforgiving. Did I pass?

Do educate me on spring compression.
Leafy
Aficionado
Aficionado
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 5:40 pm

Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by Leafy »

Why do you even care about PM?

You love gravity and friction or something?

If your heart say yes and someone tell you they’re unforgiving, maybe should reconsider.
I would trade everything to see her again, even a perpetual motion machine…
User avatar
eccentrically1
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3166
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:25 pm

Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by eccentrically1 »

fletcher wrote: **You have made it very clear that you don't believe such a physical process for a self-moving wheel can be engineered and achieved.
t79 wrote: I am struggling to see how we would transfer usable power to the wheel from earth rotation.
I’m not the only one; I’ve been struggling since 15 pages ago, however, I know it can be engineered, but you’d need strong magnets and lots of wire.
To answer your question .. and you may think I am being a smart arse but you'd be wrong .. it uses all of them except spin per se; i.e. throw, jump, and accelerate and decelerate in this hypothetical Prime Mover assembly.
I believe by throwing the chat bot meant actually throwing an object so you’re not holding it anymore. I assume your example doesn’t do that.
Same logic for jumping.
fletcher wrote:. Perhaps they (SB) helped establish that gradient we seek ?!


It has to be something besides a lever.
Last edited by eccentrically1 on Tue Jan 03, 2023 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Fletcher
Addict
Addict
Posts: 8715
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:03 am
Location: NZ

Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by Fletcher »

eccentrically1 wrote:
It has to be something besides a lever.
True dat !
User avatar
eccentrically1
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3166
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:25 pm

Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by eccentrically1 »

Fo real!
User avatar
Tarsier79
Addict
Addict
Posts: 5196
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:17 am
Location: Qld, Australia

Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by Tarsier79 »

More weights are on the left side. But they are closer to the axle than the fewer ones on the right, so the the law of leverage may still favor the right. Tarsier's energy budget says there is no surplus. It's a tethered wheel (surprise!) -- all weights are in constant contact with the system. Gravity and friction are unforgiving. Did I pass?

Do educate me on spring compression.
Mostly, but you already know where my thoughts differ on "untethered" vs "tethered". The good thing: your design looks a bit more efficient to me (Still not OU).

The spring compression acts like I said before. Whenever you use a weight to do work (compress the spring), it will have a negative effect on rotation.... In this case, the spring compression will be delayed slightly until the geometry allows the weight force to overcome the spring force. Until this happens, the spring will push the weight left (opposite of OB). So: The energy required for spring compression = negative effect on rotation.

Also, I didn't invent or pioneer the use of an "energy budget". My experience has confirmed it though. What I look for are transactions that seem not to conform to it (Science and many people here will believe I am barking up the wrong tree, but I am OK with that.)
Last edited by Tarsier79 on Tue Jan 03, 2023 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
mryy
Enthusiast
Enthusiast
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:08 pm

Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by mryy »

Leafy wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 10:39 pm Why do you even care about PM?

You love gravity and friction or something?

If your heart say yes and someone tell you they’re unforgiving, maybe should reconsider.
I care because it's FREE energy and the best things in life are FREE. Understood?

Ground Energy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TyMRuHAjQw
mryy
Enthusiast
Enthusiast
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:08 pm

Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by mryy »

Tarsier79 wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 1:33 am
More weights are on the left side. But they are closer to the axle than the fewer ones on the right, so the the law of leverage may still favor the right. Tarsier's energy budget says there is no surplus. It's a tethered wheel (surprise!) -- all weights are in constant contact with the system. Gravity and friction are unforgiving. Did I pass?

Do educate me on spring compression.
Mostly, but you already know where my thoughts differ on "untethered" vs "tethered". The good thing: your design looks a bit more efficient to me (Still not OU).

The spring compression acts like I said before. Whenever you use a weight to do work (compress the spring), it will have a negative effect on rotation.... In this case, the spring compression will be delayed slightly until the geometry allows the weight force to overcome the spring force. Until this happens, the spring will push the weight left (opposite of OB). So: The energy required for spring compression = negative effect on rotation.

Also, I didn't invent or pioneer the use of an "energy budget". My experience has confirmed it though. What I look for are transactions that seem not to conform to it (Science and many people here will believe I am barking up the wrong tree, but I am OK with that.)
So I passed. Very good.

I respect your opinion. The spring constant at the fulcrum isn't high as it is launching weights of low mass. I don't expect too much back torque that would interfere with the wheel. The yellow weights are much heavier and will pull the lever quickly I'd imagine. Ofc I could be wrong. Stay tuned.
Leafy
Aficionado
Aficionado
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 5:40 pm

Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by Leafy »

mryy wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 2:34 am

the best things in life are FREE.

Don’t you think the devil feel the same?
I would trade everything to see her again, even a perpetual motion machine…
Leafy
Aficionado
Aficionado
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 5:40 pm

Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by Leafy »

So tell me mryy,

Will you able to enjoy the free things in life with them around?
How do I know you’re not them?
They can be any of us, friends, foes, or both.
All I can do is train us to recognize.
I would trade everything to see her again, even a perpetual motion machine…
User avatar
Tarsier79
Addict
Addict
Posts: 5196
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:17 am
Location: Qld, Australia

Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by Tarsier79 »

Image
I don't expect too much back torque that would interfere with the wheel. The yellow weights are much heavier and will pull the lever quickly I'd imagine.
This is a good test. Get a reasonable but heavy weight (250g) on a reasonably long string (1m) and hang it off the edge of a table. Now get a very weak spring (or zip tie, blade of grass etc) and see how hard it is to push it sideways. Remember your spring has to be relatively strong to shoot the red weight upwards.
Leafy
Aficionado
Aficionado
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 5:40 pm

Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by Leafy »

You see mryy, if logic is returned with illogic, why would you work hard? Do you like working for free to provide for others that does not understand?
I would trade everything to see her again, even a perpetual motion machine…
mryy
Enthusiast
Enthusiast
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:08 pm

Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by mryy »

Leafy wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:04 am So tell me mryy,

Will you able to enjoy the free things in life with them around?
How do I know you’re not them?
They can be any of us, friends, foes, or both.
All I can do is train us to recognize.
....
Attachments
sunglasses-want-harcut-must-consume.jpg
Last edited by mryy on Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
mryy
Enthusiast
Enthusiast
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:08 pm

Re: Part Three is the Charm

Post by mryy »

I know you mobilists have reservations about ??theOne$$ with the flying weights. Why? It's your Fear of Flight. I understand but do try to get over your fear. I now introduce a more grounded, simpler, down-to-earth and probably tethered wheel for your pleasure. I call it ??OJ$$. Again it incorporates two types of levers and weights. Both levers mount on the same pivot.

The first lever -- the J lever -- is shaped like an alphabet and swings freely from its pivot. It carries a red weight. The second slightly wider lever -- the Peacock lever -- is like a feather and carries as many yellow weights as you desire on the long side. The other side of the pivot is a spring flapper arm. This flapper arm strikes the J lever from behind at 3:00 when the peacock lever come down, flipping it up and over where it meets the J lever above it. The red weight is handed over before the lower J lever flips back down. The process repeats at 3:00 and thereby keeps the red weight on the descending side. The action of the flipping J levers reminds me of Jacob's ladder toy.

Pull cords connect the peacock levers. I cover the J levers with disks on both sides of the wheel (resembling a grindstone). This keeps the secret deeply hidden. Not drawn to accuracy. You like?


Select Quotes:

"I have many different kinds of machines all running on different principles." PM 124 (letter to Schumacher Czar Peter The Great's librarian) Collins

"... The two machines worked on quite different principles. The Draschwitz one turned in only one direction, but the Merseburg one turned both ways. The former [Draschwitz] was provided with felt coverings, the latter was bare. I have many other machines of various types - some, for instance, with weights, others without." AP 339 Collins

"The secret was communicated to the Landgrave of Hesse, under an oath of silence, and he was allowed to examine the internal structure of the wheel. Afterwards, he was quoted as saying to his ministers, that he believed the machine to be a true perpetual motion machine and it was so simple and easy to construct that he was amazed that no one had managed to invent a similar machine. (Jean Bernoulli letter to Willem 's Gravesande) Collins.

"His Highness [Landgrave Karl], who has a perfect understanding of mathematics, assured me that the machine is so simple that a carpenter's boy could understand and make it after having seen the inside of this wheel, and that he would not risk his name in giving these attestations, if he did not have knowledge of the machine." PM 95 Collins
Attachments
besslerrev34.jpg
Last edited by mryy on Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply