Zeroing in on Bessler's wheel

[johannesbender]

@sam , second heads-up , if your top roller rolls left down the flat part , then a right hand side will roll up against its flat side acting in the opposite direction of the top one ...

[WaltzCee]

There's still the inertia, friction & latency. I think they're minimal forces yet still present.

No need to consider c.f. at this time.

[Sam Peppiatt]

johannesbender, Yes, it will turn either way; that was the biggest trick of all, right? You would have to give this thing a big push to get it going and, It should be bidirectional, but that's a good thing, isn't it--------------Sam

With the the old wheel, two drums, a two oz. weight would start it rotating, with out the flats, FWEIW----------------------Sam

[WaltzCee]

Shammy

If you use Fletcher's method here


viewtopic.php?p=192131#p192131





But first put a straight pin thru the pic:s center then put that on top a second sheet.

Now put the weights at the bottom of their respective casing and punch a hole thru the weight's middle.

Now calculate the CoM on the second sheet. Reassemble move the pic 30-45 degrees. Repeat.

You'll get an idea how the CoM rotates below the axle. I've seen that pattern before.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Waltcy / Fletcher, I know it should be bottom heavy. But, it isn't. Believe me, I was as surprised as you are. The only possible explanation I could come up with is, since the casings are balanced, some how, it follows that the rollers are too. What else could it be--------------------Sam

[Tarsier79]

I know it should be bottom heavy. But, it isn't

Gravity will push the COM to the lowest point. That point will be when all 3 balls are off the flat. The balls are actually lifted onto the flat, slowing the wheel, then they roll off the flat, speeding it. Overall, there is nothing pushing anything anywhere. It is a "dead duck" for me:)

[Sam Peppiatt]

I would have thought the same thing, until I tried it---------------------Sam

[Sam Peppiatt]

I stumped you, huh? Don't feel bad. I couldn't believe it either. All I can tell you is, if you take the flats out, it's perfectly balanced and will spin like a top.
Are you still without understanding-----------------------------Sam

[johannesbender]

See what i mean here ?

[Sam Peppiatt]

johannesbender, I'm not exactly sure, no. It's good that you rotated it. In this position it is momentarily perfectly balanced. If it rotates either direction, with the roller up onto a flat place, (which lift's it up almost an inch), the center of gravity will actual be, a little bit above the axle / top heavy. I know it doesn't seam possible, but there you have it. What can I say, I couldn't believe it either, at first.

I've been talking about this for a week now. Don't you see? Bessler's wheel may now be possible. He must have made this very same discovery, that I managed to stumble onto. When I told my Brother, he thought I was nut's and, that I'd been working on this wheel too long and, that I probably should get away from it for a while-------------------------Sam

[WaltzCee]

In the position johannesbender posted, it needs to rotate 90 degrees clockwise to get the top weight moving down the ramp. That takes energy. As it's shown it's stalled.

This design stalls 3 times every 360 degrees for 90 degrees a pop (270 total). If one were to add more mechanisms, you could increase the frequency of stalls.

The mass of the casings evenly distributed around the axle helps to keep it rolling, yet

the conservative nature of gravity rears her ugly face once again.

[Sam Peppiatt]

waltcy,
You're mostly right. This is what happens; the way it is now, the roller weighs 7 lbs. I measured this with a spring scales. It takes a little bit over one pound to rotate it up onto the flat. On the down side it measures the same, about one pound, because it is now top heavy. So, you do get most of it back but, not 100%, because of ordinary loss's. The usual thing, as you say, that happens with gravity only,( as Fletcher would say).

What that means is, the OOB component, by it self, will not sustain rotation of the wheel. However, the flat section has inadvertently opened up another window of opportunity. I.E., as the roller rolls down the flat,(down hill), it smashes into the side of the casing with a big bang. Like a hammer hitting an anvil.

Right now that's just wasted energy. So, what I want to do, is to try and convert it, some how, into rotational torque. Also, now that the rollers are balanced most of the time, it shouldn't take much to keep it going. But hey, I don't know sh*t, maybe it won't work---------------------------Sam

[WaltzCee]

Hard to say who knows what. Best to just look at what's said and go from there.



If the top 2 weights were at the top of their casings and pinned with a pivot point letting them rotate, the design begins to get interesting. If the driver mass needs energy, the 2 flywheels should have it to spare.

Those 2 masses might be used to store energy and also counter-balance the third mass at the bottom that might drive the wheel.

If you work out the mechanics . . .

[Sam Peppiatt]

Waltcy,
You are on the right track. This is what it's like: Imagine all three rollers exactly centered on the casings and a pin in the very center of them pined to the wheel. Then it would be obvious that they would be perfectly balanced, right? Apparently, the casings ack the same way as a center pin. For some reason the rollers don't know the difference. They, the rollers, think they are centered on the casings, or at least there center of mass is, / balanced.

It's mind boggling but, some how they are held in such a way that they remain balanced. One things for sure, it's not obvious that this could happen. I have to admit that I don't have a very good explanation for it. Where is a scientist when you need one-------------------Sam

[WaltzCee]

The CoM's (Center of Masses) aren't balanced. That could be shown by tracking them as I suggested you try. For them to be balanced, their common CoM would be at the center of rotation always as the wheel rotates.

What equals (some what) are the torques of the sum of the 3 masses wrt the center of rotation. It may seem a moot point.

I suppose if you let the 3 masses rotate and freewheel if the wheel slows down, they might be the energy or driver of another mechanism causing the wheel to rotate.

That driver would be riding the very wheel it was driving. Poetic, if you ask me.