Zeroing in on Bessler's wheel

[WaltzCee]

This lull would be useful as a comment period.

Any ideas, anyone?

Fletcher's SIM

[Fletcher]

Here's the sim Walt .. do your magic.

[WaltzCee]

Here's the sim Walt .. do your magic

I no longer have wm2d, Fletcher. Also my ideas are substantially different than this.

I'm sure your system CoM rotates under the axle. You might use that paper analysis I described and track it.

Conclusion .. COM is balanced in any position i.e. there is no torque unless the COM GPE can get lower i.e. the system is in its position of least GPE, and it remains there in any orientation.

My speculation of a rotating system CoM were at least one mass hitting a ramp.

When I look at this I see a gradient between any of the 2 masses & the third mass.

I have no idea how to exploit that yet I'm sure it gets Rube Goldberg from here on out.

I've had designs I'd call the topological equivalent of this and I shelved them.

[Fletcher]

Here's the generic sim with "flats" attached.

Note where the system COM icon is located (it shows when and where there will be torque). The sim has a small push start for 2 secs to get it going CW. It appears to have too much back-torque and slows and stops at its position of least GPE, imo !

IOW's the flats force the roller out to the lhs while it rests on it (negative torque input). And we get an impact once it is free to run downhill over tdc.

The question is .. is the sim telling the same story as the real world build, or are they different - if so, why ?

Editing ..

Hope the animation of the sim is more viewable this time - had to skip much frames etc to get it into file size acceptability.

Replaced original animation with one that runs out a bit longer (second attachment)

Included the WM file for those who want to have a play etc.

Had hoped others with Algodoo would have had a go at building an equivalent sim. Rings are hard to make in WM so copy these and save them somewhere for future reference.

...............................................

[WaltzCee]

I can't see motion in your animation, Fletcher, yet when I repost it I can.

Any one have any thoughts?

[Fletcher]

You have to click on the attachment Walt, to see the animation.

[johannesbender]

Jip depends if the attachment is placed "inline" or not..

[Sam Peppiatt]

What can I say! I don't know about Bessler but I would say it's very fancy full; Impressive! I love it---------------Sam

[Fletcher]

Here's an animation of the original tri-roller test-bed (with no flats). Hopefully easier to follow the COM and declining Angular Velocity in the Black side panel.

For those interested I had to change "skip frames" tracking to every 100 frames. Run the sim out, then replay - then it shows every 100 frames. Recorded the animation at customised 175 frames (max I could get a file to save at).

Click on the attachment to view animation of the sim.

[Fletcher]

And here is the "With Flats" sim animation again - this time a variation where I start the top roller over to the left as it would be in real-world. Still has a small push start, but the roller gets to roll the full length of the "flat" section.

Sim file attached.

I assume that I have the basics about right but open to correction.

[WaltzCee]

What can I say! I don't know about Bessler but I would say it's very fancy full; Impressive! I love it---------------Sam

I don't mind to say something. There is no forum on earth like Bessler Wheel.

Sam, you should download the wm2d files Fletcher posted. You never know when you might run into someone with wm2d who can work with them.

You're the greatest Fletcher. That's meant as a very sincere compliment.

[Fletcher]

You're welcome .. trying to be as helpful as I am able.

Take-away .. So much depends on analysis (sim or real-world) !!

.. Was rushed into putting my associated comments up straight off the top of my head as had spent way to long on it this morning and had to get on. May have missed some analytical detail. I assume that if the sims are watched over a few times that things become clearer. Sorry about the jerky nature but you'll have to fill in the blanks with your mind-sim.

ABC's

Assume Nothing
Believe Nothing
Check Everything

Really would like some Algodoo sims of same or similar to compare against. Anyone willing ?

Best -f

[Sam Peppiatt]

It's incredible ! Thanks Fletcher, for all of your time and effort. It's worth a million words and, a ton of gold! It must surely be the beginnings of a runner. What was it Bessler said?--- "so simple yet so deeply hidden"---from all of us-------------------------Sam

[WaltzCee]

When I look at this one, Sam



it does look as if it will keep running.

When you push start it, Fletcher, does it accelerate?

[Fletcher]

FWIW .. I was having trouble this morning making a gif animation file and loading it as an attachment to a post. When loading a file it says that max file size is 9 MiB which I take to mean about 9.5 MB. Where 1000 KB = 1 MB so about 9500 KB's ???????

** I tried looking up in the FAQ but it doesn't give a mx file size there. I seem to remember Agor saying something about them a while back. Any help appreciated.

.. I would try to save the gif file animation of my sim but it continually just disappeared from the folder. I kept the files as short as possible until a test pendulum saved, then I started playing around with WM2D menu World>Skip Frames (set it to 100). Then I'd run the sim and reset with it in memory. Then run it again and it would show every 100th frame only. Then I set the gif animator to only record every 33 frames, then steadily upped that till maxed out at 175 frames before it would save the file for some reason i.e. above 175 frames the file couldn't be found (didn't exist).

The more frame skipping I used in WM combined with the larger steps in frame capture in the gif animator finally got the file sizes down after dozens of attempts.

Anyways .. I think the forum allows about 9.5 MB's file size max. So I going to experiment some more with the gif animator to try and get longer running animations and smoother viewing inside the allowable file size limit.

Maybe you can teach old dogs new tricks lol.