A new magnet motor...

[ken_behrendt]

Ralph wrote (with regard to the Howard Johnson motor):

The bottom line is, the patent was based on an appeals board who saw a plastic toy car propel itself across a series on magnets not unlike what today we call a smot.

I think that he got the patent because his demonstration did, indeed, show that the car mounted magnets could be moved by the stator magnets in the tracks beneath it. However, because of the very powerful rare earth magnets he used, that car had to have a heavy weight resting on it to hold it down on the tracks. The demonstration was impressive, but it is easy to ignore the energy he had to put into the system in order to position the car on the tracks. Then when the car is released, it goes flying off the end of the tracks. It's really no different then just compressing a spring and then releasing it...energy out = energy in.

In Johnson's patents, nowhere does it say that his devices are producing energy so he really does not claim OU/PM. That, most likely, is why the received the patents in the first place.

If magnetic forces are truly conservative, then building a rotary machine using Johnson's design should not be able to produce any motion whatsoever. I tend to think that if it was possible, then it would have been done by now...


ken

[rlortie]

For those into magnet motors and love math, should have a good time here. Plan on a long night as this is not just one page.

http://www.spots.ab.ca/~belfroy/MagnetM ... Motor.html

Ralph

[Neo]

Ken,

You sound like everyone that thought Bessler was a fraud.

If it hasn't been done yet it can't be done mentality?

I say rubbish!

What the mind can concieve the hands can build.

[Neo]

Ken,

You sound like everyone that thought Bessler was a fraud.

If it hasn't been done yet it can't be done mentality?

I say rubbish!

What the mind can concieve the hands can build.

[rlortie]

Neo,

I agree, Verne, Jules (1828-1905), French author, who is regarded as the father of science fiction. Stated that if man could write about it he would some day build it.

We have not had a war of the worlds or been to the center of the earth yet. Everything else he wrote about has been accomplished.

Ralph

[ken_behrendt]

Neo wrote:

You sound like everyone that thought Bessler was a fraud.
If it hasn't been done yet it can't be done mentality?

Well, there is a BIG difference between Bessler and Johnson. Bessler was able to demonstrate a working rotary device. So far, I know of no one who has been able to get a rotary device using Johnson's design to run continuously...or any other type of magnetic motor for that matter.

Of course, this does not necessarily mean that such a device is impossble and my comments above were made with respect to the Johnson rotary magnetic motor...not magnetic motors in general. Many inventors have attempted to build a working Johnson motor and none has been successful. So, even Johnson himself, apparently, has not been able to do it. What then should one conclude about the design? As far as I am concerned, I do not think his design is workable.

I do hope, however, that, someday, someone will actually get some sort of magnetic motor running continuously. Magnetic motors would have many advantages over gravity powered devices. For example, they could be made more compact and would be able to have high power output to weight ratios.


ken

[Techstuf]

I do hope, however, that, someday, someone will actually get some sort of magnetic motor running continuously. Magnetic motors would have many advantages over gravity powered devices.

Indeed, one who resolves Bessler's paradox....may reign in both forces, for they share their toil under the same, solid yoke.


Peace,


TS

[primemignonite]

Greetings My Friends . . .

For the life of me, honestly, I cannot understand why they do not give more positive reputation to the distinguished Techstuff. By all that's right and just, he clearly deserves it - he is invariably on-point, pertinent, timely and at times, terrifically amusing.

It may be just plain old jealousy that accounts for it.

* * * * * * *

I downloaded the Cyclone Engine clip, and was truly quite impressed with what I saw, as well as heard. The end caps seem to have been cast of aluminum, maybe, and quite well-worked-out. There seemed to be a startup phase which lasted only a short time then something else took over and it really "revved" up with an accompanying sound just like that, giving the impression of real latent power. Two car batteries seemed to be connected to the small starter/generator on the side. Curiously, while running, the small unit seems to have been dis-engaged at some point, and certainly was when it coasted to a stop. At that point there could be observed a back and forth rocking movement of the main gear. To me this appeared as a slight cogging effect, which might be expectable with an interior magnet assembly of some sort.

If you have the right player, you can stop the motion and slowly back up or go forward and see all kinds of details otherwise lost when viewed normally. It's worth a careful look, I think. I may be naive, but I don't get the impression of it's being a fraudulent thing, but rather, deserving of some careful study. It's true, so very much of this kind of thing has been a sad disappointment to all, but, you never know when the real deal might just pop up.

James

[ovyyus]

It may be just plain old jealousy that accounts for it.

Aside from the feverish bible bashing, it might have something to do with trust and fraud - as in lack of the former and excess of the latter. Of course, that doesn't seem to bother some people.

It may be just plain old jealousy that accounts for it.

Now that's funny - LOL ...wipes tears from eyes... yeah, that must be it - ROTFL!

[Techstuf]

I daresay I've done considerably less 'feverish Bible bashing' than Bill has done 'Das Triumphans' or 'Machinen Tractate' thumping.....

And look where it's got him.....another day older and deeper in debt.

Bessler, for not having revealed his wheel in it's entirety...was and is, considered a 'fraud' by the wide preponderance of those having heard of him and his wheel.....He did his share of what Bill derisively labels: 'Bible Bashing', in his day, and had hoped to do much more....and in an academic environment as well.

One would do well to more deeply consider the possibility that, if he really did do what he claimed, then the solution may have come from whence he claimed as well.


Was Bessler a fraud? No more so than those who offhandedly discount the possibility of a much Higher being than themselves, creating this marvelously ordered universe.....while maintaining an unwavering discipleship to a man who claimed that this self same Creator gave him victory over the heretofore....'impossible'.


People defraud themselves every day.....often to avoid the personal pain of deeply considering greater 'impossibilities' than Bessler and his wheel.


I am somewhat symapthetic to Bill's view....regarding myself and the manner in which he perceives me to have 'peddled influence'.


I am however, comfortable with the notion that a few obviously share regarding myself and my views.....


As as that might seem.



Peace,


TS

[ovyyus]

... still trying to justify fraud with stupid excuses - some things will never change.

[primemignonite]

Greetings my friends . . .

On further reflection, I think that it may turn out that all of these supposedly working magnetic engine schemes are just expending the energy latent within their magnets, and after that, just peter out. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that that was what Gary's problem was, way back in 1878 - motion achieved - make it bigger - big hopes for powering industry, etc., then the inevitable. With the Cyclone - same situation. Actually, I have little doubt that both did/do "go of themselves", but eventually just fizzle and come to be in need recharging or replacement.

So, as a fair summing-up of what we have so far, would it be unfair to tentatively conclude that the trick with the magnetic pseudo-perpetual motions, is merely to find some clever way to extract most of the energy put in originally to make the magnets, and then, to cause it to do essentially useless work, but work set to the truly useful purposes of providing entertainment and intellectual stimulation?

I really do wish that this did not seem to be the case, but usage of magnets for tapping the teeming whatever for it's energy, looks like a closed book from this view. I pray that I will be proven wrong.

The GOOD NEWS, I think, is that there is not an analogous situation with respect to gravity. From our ant-sized view of reality, there would seem to be and endless supply of it, and therefore, not in any need of recharging. There's all we can use and it's as free as the wind.

James

[Techstuf]

... still trying to justify fraud with stupid excuses - some things will never change.

Where in my above statements do you find an excuse? I offered none.....again Bill, you take yourself too seriously.


For I, despite your delusion, am not beholden to you for my assertions.


There are many types of 'fraud'......and the stones you cast are coated with them.


All will be revealed in it's due season......and it will be shown that often, those who have cried 'FRAUD' the loudest, took part in the greatest of them all.


Peace,


TS

[ovyyus]

... now you accuse me of fraud in a pathetic attempt to make yourself look better. Weak response Mitch!

[Techstuf]

PM,

Reactor fuel rods are eventually spent, but not without first making a great show of themselves.....and even after they're done, the magnets in in the generators they turn, beg for more. Ask yourself how often the permanent magnets in hydroelectric dams need replacing....after producing trillions of watts, they produce many more than used to create them.

The effects of magnetism and gravity both stem from deceptively simple field dynamics principles....


And, as is rapidly being deduced, there is a simple and sobering reason you can't have one without the other.


Peace,


TS


P.S. I am not naive as to the 'gravity' of the matter.....so to speak. And despite certain observations, It is not my intent to make 'light' of it.