A new magnet motor...

[Techstuf]

You are free Bill, to make inference in what way you may.



Peace,


TS

[rlortie]

techstuf,

You wrote;

Ask yourself how often the permanent magnets in hydroelectric dams need replacing....after producing trillions of watts, they produce many more than used to create them.

After spending 22 years as a maintainance mechanic in a hydo-electric facility. I must admit that I never seen or was involved in changing a permanent magnet.

There was none found to replace. You will not find permanent magnets in any generator that is directly connected to the grid. It is an impossible, as with permanent magnets you have no phase control which is taken in to account with demand.

Ralph

[Techstuf]

Thank you for the correction Ralph, my naivete is showing. However, the point is still valid.....smaller hydroelectric generators have been in use for years, making use of permanent magnets.....producing many, many times more energy than used to create them, their field strength showing virtually no measurable losses over years of use.


Peace,


TS

[primemignonite]

Dear Techstuff,

As I think we all know, the steel horseshoe magnets of Gary's time were notorious for their inability to maintain charge, and as a result, had to be looked after rather often. The materials they had back then were primitive, as compared to the steels later developed for the special purpose. They were by no means "permanent".

Sure, our modern miracle magnets do maintain their charge when used in circumstances where they are not overstressed or heated, but it is my understanding that even they can be mis-used in such a way as to cause catastrophic failure, i.e. destruction.

Assuming that the ordinary physical laws will always apply, as we understand them, in the case of an operating magnet-only motor, the only rational conclusion that can be made, I believe, is that the magnets are being sapped of their stored energy, but in a highly controlled manner. Put another way, they are merely being used as a medium of storage for that later time. By way of explanation, much of anything else ushers us right into the Land Of Woo-Woo, does it not?

Awhile back I read somewhere that a pernicious, insuperable problem with the present-day devices that DO "go of themselves", is this overheating and attendant eventual discharge feature. As I wrote before, I DO hope that I am incorrect, truly I do.

As usual, your points were well made and put. Thank you.

PAX

James

[rlortie]

primemignonite,

first I am curious about your acronym "PAX" I can not find it in the files.

Now for your land of woo-woo. I have had working (repelling) magnets in place for a number of years and have seen no drain on them. It is said they do no work and are a conservative force or energy. Therefore at the current time rate I do not believe I will see any loss in my lifetime.

It is my belief that the only way a magnet will get hot is when it is introduced into an electromagnetic field of opposing fields with the application of torque in an attempt to overcome Lenz law. Even then it is not the magnet producing the heat but rather absorbing it from the electrical resistance.

Magnets can be compared to gravity which is also considered a conservative force, it does not produce heat either. With this in mind should gravity be considered for your land of woo-woo.

I do not mean for you to interpret this as me being a smart a-s, I just can't come up with a better way to say it.

Ralph

[Techstuf]

Having used a wide variety of rare earth magnets in an even wider variety of ways....I can attest to the fact that NdFeB magnets seem to be the most reliable....heat alone seems to be their weakness.

Anyone who has much experience with them will attest to the near indestructability of their field strength to anything but heat.


Peace,


TS

[jim_mich]

Ralph,

PAX Definition: [n] (Roman Catholic) a greeting signifying Christian love for those assisting at the Eucharist

More... http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=pax

[John Collins]

Pax is Latin for peace.

[rlortie]

Thank you Jim and John for your timely reply and input.

Regards,

Ralph

[Paul]

Hi,
the "unstable" Claudio(my brother) wheel has let me come an idea to build one permanent magnets motor. I do not know whether it can work, now I show it.

In the figure there are two not parallel wheels. The wheels are lightly inclined and, like in the Claudio's wheel, the wheels are connected by one costant velocity joint to prevent shifting between the two wheels. Every wheel has a few permanent magnets mounted near the circumference. The magnets are mounted equidistant exposed so as to be always in the same position... precisely exposed between the two wheels.
The magnets are oriented so that we both a repulsion between the magnets of the two wheels.
To obtain the rotation of the wheels we must apply an attraction force by 180° and a repulsion force by 180° between of them.
Between the wheels, for half of the surface there is one metal screen that has a minimum thickness *about 1 mm*.
In the point in which the wheels are nearer, the permanent magnets will be very near to the screen .. about 1mm or also less then 1mm.
The point in which the wheels are nearer and also nearer to the screen between them is the point most critical of the system: the magnets attract the metal screen and when they leave him all the energy earned along the circumference could be lost. I think that the best way for limiting this loss is of having a form to tip bends what follows the pattern of rotation of the magnets. This way the removal between magnets and screen "steals" less energy from the system.
Another system could be to use a metal with many little holes so as to limit the screening effect in that detachment point.

Paul (Claudio's brother)

edit
Certainly this arranges provides little useful energy but if it works it will turn forever.
With permanent magnet it is not so difficult obtain PM :-)

[ken_behrendt]

Paul...

I've seen designs similar to the one you posted in the past and they do not work. The problem is that, while the shielding between the rotating magnet carrying discs may diminish the attaction between approaching magnets on opposite wheels, one still has the problem of the attraction of the magnets to the shielding material itself. In practice, one finds that this attraction of the magnets for the shield material will prevent the device from working.


ken

[Paul]

Hi Ken, yes the problem may be that.
I will try to build a little prototype to verify if the idea of the form to tip in the detachment improves the situation.
Paul

[primemignonite]

Ralph (rlortie),

As to your question regarding the acronym I use, John Collins and Jim Mich did my work for me. Collins' was the one I intended.

I don't know what the configuration you have might be, but as long as what they are doing is not overstressing them and/or causing heat buildup, then I too would expect them to last for as long as you suggest and possibly forever, even. Why not?

That is interesting what you point out regarding Lenz's Law. Along the lines of my notion about what I was referring to specifically - that being an ". . . operating magnet-only motor, . . ." (to quote myself) - they might be doing something analogous that causes the eventually fatal effect to manifest, due to over-heating.

The woo-woo comment was just relating to alternate explanations for my now-twice-referenced type of device.

Here I am just guessing, but it may have been the late Carl Sagan who first uttered 'woo-woo', but whoever it actually was, it definitely is part of the derogatory vocabulary of many of our main-stream detractors - not very nice, I think, but that is the way some of them are. I myself made up the upper cased variation on the original, for the purpose of creating the example.

And - gravity itself is, for sure, not in or of that place. Only certain kinds of attempts at applying it to 'exotic' purposes, might be? That having been said, it IS an awfully weird force, weak or not. Or, on the other hand, perhaps it is of that land, being of such "high strangeness" . . . hmm.

I think that covers everything you asked about.

* * * * *

Very collateral to all of this, is this quote taken from an interesting site, the link to it following:

"Magnet Motors"
"Motors in which magnets are the only motive force. No validated documentation yet obtained of a system in which magnets do not degauss"

(Underscoring for emphasis, mine.)

http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/MagneticMotors/

This is a wonderful page just full of ideas and models, including the rather impressive (to me, at least) "Cyclone Magnet Engine". Many others are there to tantalize and fascinate, not the least of which being, the excellent Mr. Gary's little vibrating dynamo creature.

PAX

James

[Techstuf]

The coercive forces exhibited in a working mechanical PM magnet motor, by necessity, will be considerably less than those exhibited in conventional rare earth magnet motors. Any indications to the contrary are most likely borne from misdirective efforts by those beholden to gullible investors.


TS

[rlortie]

James (primemignonite)

"Magnet Motors"
"Motors in which magnets are the only motive force. No validated documentation yet obtained of a system in which magnets do not degauss"
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/MagneticMotors/

Boy! that's a fair statement. before you can validate documentation, you have to come up with a working magnetic motor. As that is not validated, I guess I could say that no documentation yet obtained of a system in which magnets do degauss. :-) Sounds like someone practicing to be a politician.

As for your link, I have been there many times. Good old Sterling D. Allan and I have been known to have our ups and downs inspired by debate and plagiarism.

As for my configuration it is simple a 13" magnetically suspended wheel that weighs in approx 5 pounds. It is made up of four speaker magnets. Bottom or base repelling, one on bottom of wheel repelling, one on top of wheel attracting and one on top of mount attracting.

The wheel is a sandwiched layer of two 3/32" aluminum which has Radio shack rectangle magnets attached in the form of spokes. The device has very low resistance and would make a good Orfyan bearing. At low RPM it does exhibit a slight chattering effect. JLNLabs has referred to this chattering as the Barkhuason effect, (or something similar)

Regards,
Ralph