Zeroing in on Bessler's wheel

[Sam Peppiatt]

Like it or not, you can't stop it------------------Sam

[Tarsier79]

Good for you Sam.

Nothing would please me more than if someone found the answer.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Tarsier79, my friend.
Thanks for not calling me a tosswholloper! Wouldn't it be wonderful to be rid of it? A most despicable thing as ever there was-------------------Sam

[Tarsier79]

Ha ha Sam. I respect effort. If you lived near me I would even build your mechanism for you. It would only take 1 day to build a smallish version with 4, 6 or 8 "D" assemblies with my CNC Router.

I am going to post the below diagram again, just to clarify.

The orientation is only to show the roller energy transaction as it is lifted by the flat, rolling along the flat and rotating around.
When you build yours, try to take note of when the roller is lifted and the torque it creates in both directions.

Anyway, I hope it is a good learning experience.

[preoccupied]

I'm glad your learning experience is being fun. I'm pretty cocky for someone with almost no skills. I need to do some learning myself in my own design. I think your design requires a lot of imagination to believe it would work. I hope it works. Do you think a spring under the flat part would help or any kind of elasticity?

[WaltzCee]

Right leafy, some thing to cushion it. I'm trying a spring. Anyway, have to perfect it some way----------------Sam

Elastic collision, I think you're on to something. I'll run it by the boys in engineering.

Engineering agrees elastic collision is a way forward, yet legal says you'd be skirting dangerously close to an IP violation of invoking

THE FLETCHER!!!?

It's risky, you decide.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Tarsier,
Right, I'll learn some thing. Only the experiment is meaning full, the words are meaningless--------------

Hi preoccupied, I read your struggles but am unable to help, so I say nothing. I thought a spring might help but just couldn't be sure, if it did or not. I decided in favor of a spiral ramp--------------------

Waltcy, that particular spring had to do with the impact feasco! In that instance, it did help-----------------Sam

[Sam Peppiatt]

FWEIW,
I've recently learned, that for a gravity wheel to work, the weights have to shift out, on the down side, faster than what the wheel is turning. The best way to do that, and maybe the only way, is with centrifugal inertia forces. Angular accelerations can easily exceed the acceleration due to gravity, and therefore are much faster.

It makes sense right? The weights have to shift out a lot faster than than the wheel is turning, to do any good. Perhaps I should add, CF is used to shift the weights only, NOT to turn the wheel---------Sam

[eccentrically1]

The problem is the force from cf doesn’t turn the wheel as you added. It can only shift weights radially. Iow, you’re still left with the weights only being accelerated by gravity, not gravity + cf. the wheel frame is only being accelerated by the weights so that means the wheel can’t go faster than the acceleration of gravity that the weights are going. That’s the best way I can think of to explain the problem with cf. a force has to be less than 90 degrees from an object’s path to affect it.

[preoccupied]

Another problem with trying to make weights push out and move faster is that they become slower as a rule of angular velocity. Moving weights inward makes them move faster. That's what angular velocity is. I think the best way to make a weight move faster than the wheel is to move it inward and if you are also lifting the weight it might help lift the weight too. So the speed created by angular velocity could be torque added to lifting a weight. That could create over unit in a variety of mechanisms but the one I'm working on that does that is just a swastika because the bottom falling right angle can lay low and lift back up. I agree with you Sam that the weights need to push faster than the wheel but centrifugal force is not my method, angular velocity is. Am I alone? Throw me a bone here. I think I'm right.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi preoccupied,
Angular velocity isn't the issue. It's the radial movement that I'm concerned with. I.E., how quickly the weights shift outward. It's nothing complicated. I don't know how I can explain it any better, they it weights, have be ahead of the curve so to speak. To repeat, the weights are thrown out ward due to angular accelerations,(CF).

You're doing some thing entirely different, so it may not be important-----------------

ecc1, you mentioned problem, problem, problem. I must be a dunce, what is the problem------------------Sam

[eccentrically1]

I'm not sure I can clarify the cf problem further. But I'll try.
For the weights to turn the wheel, it's not that they have to go faster than the wheel. Does a horse go faster than a cart?

[Sam Peppiatt]

Yes, I agree. I'm not talking about the turning of the wheel. It's the location of the weights. The change in location of the weights from one location to the other. In this case they, the weights, have to shift outward, in order for the wheel to be OOB. It is this shift, that has to happen quickly, and I submit, it has to be faster than the wheel is turning.

You your self pointed out that the time to do that is very short!

Then; after that happens, after the weights shift, gravity can do it's thing to turn the wheel-------------------Sam

[eccentrically1]

Ok.
Tell me what you think the location of the weights is during rotation for any lever combo you want.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Levers?
I'm afraid that trying to shift the weights with levers is hopeless. It's freqing hopeless! If you will forgive me for saying so. I could be wrong about that but, I don't think so. At least I don't know how to do it---------Sam