Drawing that trades distance

[preoccupied]

hi Sam i would like to know more. what is Robel balance?

If you can't remember how you slid the weights can you look it up? I think you might have had a bad idea because the swastika is clearly Bessler's wheel and this that I've drawn, a variation of a working model, I'm sure...

I don't know what FWEIW is.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Preoccupied,
I'm getting holes in my memory. FWEIW, (for what ever it's worth), sorry for that. Robel Balance. Robel is the guys name. Just go on line / google, it will show pictures of it. It's one of those things that when you look at it, it warps your mind.

For the legs of the swastika I used hardened and ground rods with linear ball bearings in the weights. It seamed like a good idea I thought, I could slide the weights and not have to lift them.

I'll have to dig through my log books. I think when the weight was at the top it was OOB but, then at 4 or 5 ish it was balanced but, let me check on that------Sam

[preoccupied]

Sam,

sliding weights along the swastika is the most silly thing I thought you meant. You should want to let the two right angles drop freely on one side and then lift the weight back up somehow.

I loaded the stork's bills full of 4 weights in this adaption of my drawing. So the stork's bill's diamond shape is 100x100 diameter. So the distance to the center of the storks' bill which would be the amount of distance offset on the weights when they are extended is only 50 pixels. The wheel is 800 diameter so the distance of the extra weight overbalanced on the left is 400 pixels. So if I have 4 weights on the stork's bills that's only 200 pixels of force counteracting the extra weight overbalanced on the left. Having these extra weights would cause the lever to load into position on the bottom more forcefully and would cause the wheel to have a higher maximum speed. Having so many weights is completely unnecessary I think maybe that 3 weights would be the absolute maximum in this drawing that should be on the stork's bill. And it's over kill, two weights is over kill. Adding more weights to the stork's bill would just increase how effective it reloads the bottom weight causing it to have a higher maximum speed.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Preoccupied,
Well if there is a wrong way to do some thing I'll find it. Bell cranks; I used bell cranks to slide them--------------Sam

[preoccupied]

I'm sharing a recent drawing that shows a swastika shifting weights with a storks bill. The right image shows that it starts balanced and moves into unbalanced positions. The left image is either closely balanced or mild unbalanced. It could benefit from experimenting with stork's bill length to find optimal position. Do you see the flaws in the design? You don't because it's perfect. I am Hermes the Greek god or my time travel duplicate that ran past the speed of light on foot is and I say there are variations of swastika over balanced wheels.

[thx4]

thx4 thanks for the crossbar share interesting i see the high friction issue its just so nice to see well built tests with there physical failing right in front of you thanks again

I thank you, it is always a pleasure.

I modified the system, I added articulated arms which makes it possible to open in all the positions, herewith some photographs. I am now familiar with the stork beaks. I'm going back to the MT47. :)







A++

[preoccupied]

Feel free to use the swastika to improve your design thx4. I modified the image to show where the swastika is in the design in green. I also colored the positions that the weights should shift into position to in red.

This appears to be a working design and it's very simple. Keep it simple stupid. Someone said that before. Moderator Scott probably knows because he is into quotes and stuff.

Now that I think about it the stork's bill without the green swastika support might work in the right angle position. It's the two weights in the positions that I have shown that might be why this would work, if it does work.

[preoccupied]

Maybe we are making history with our historic attempts at making a Bessler Wheel. Here is what seems like a toy to me. Took my previous drawing and calculated that the driving weight would have to be heavier about 4x the power. Interesting! Right?! The hints! Could this be what the 4:1 riddling statements was all about? The left image moves from balanced to unbalanced positions and the right image looks like it's about balanced before it keels a little. So the machine remains balanced and out of balanced, never keels. This could be put on the desk as an executives office toy because it should never be used to produce huge amounts of energy in a non renewable way. I think that's dangerous. Only in times of desperation should we risk losing gravity to this device. Wars should be fought to prevent this from being freely used to produce energy for the betterment of mankind.

Sincerely,

Jon Perry

[preoccupied]

I think that I improved the design by trying to not be as fancy and not have the wheel look like it has running legs. If the swastika is just the storks bill it will be balanced perfectly every 45 degrees and begin shift weights when it keels not any at all before it keels. On the right image it will be 45 degree the big weight would be 2x lever and 2x weight so 4x power if I understand how the physics works. I have got the concept right. I think it takes 0.24 force to pull the weight up on those storks bills. So maybe it could be 4.2x power that's needed for optimal performance. If the lever on the storks bill doesn't work that way then it could just be a 4x heavier weight on diamonds corner and it should work that way. Fletcher has a lot more respect for other people's designs than mine. He has maximum power at using simulations and this would be so easy to simulate if I had any brains for it. Please don't use this design to create electricity or run machines in a gravity non renewable way. If you are making your own gravity then go for it but don't use Earth's gravity, man that has got to be super dangerous.

[preoccupied]

This is also balanced or unbalanced. Never keeling. This drawing has more power to it than the previous one.

This seems like a clear runner like the last picture but with more power to it.

[Fletcher]

Jon .. if you wish to save yourself some time and effort with your drawings then you should consider that a multi-sectioned Stroks-Bill (SB) is dynamically exactly the same as a one-section pantagraph.

And I suggest you clearly label what is the Effort Weight, and what is the Load Weight otherwise people have little idea from the drawing (and some are missing IINM).

If I have your drawing right then the large diameter Effort Wt loses GPE and this extends the SB with its Load Wt. Which then retracts at a later position once the mech can lose GPE once again.

[preoccupied]

Hi Fletcher

Because the storks bill is more at an angle when being pulled in I think it's the ideal position to add a spring. The spring is 3.5 strength and at an angle of 45 degrees that spring can pull up the stork's bill by itself because 3.5x2 length lever=7 *.7*.7*.7*.7=1.68 and weight of 2*0.7=1.4. The right drawing will pull in the storks bill earlier now. On the left image it won't extend the storks bill until it's about level horizontally.

[Fletcher]

All I can tell you is what I know about traditional springs like the ones you propose to use.

Springs are not leverage .. they are devices that store KE as Elastic PE, and then give it back again as KE. That process can be passive (like a spring on your truck going over a jump, and your design) or interrupted like when a weight is arrested and then latched and released (e.g. mousetrap).

If you look at your pic maybe you can imagine the spring retarding movement in one quarter and advancing it in another .. the question is does this provide an advantage or a disadvantage or no advantage at all ?

That's about all I can add ..

[preoccupied]

The spring provides an advantage because the load is heavier when its in use to help the driving weight pick up the weight and lighter when its a burden on the driving weight and the load is horizontal and requires no resistance. Or how can I word this? When the spring is helping the driving weight the load is heavy and when the spring is impeding the driving weight there is no load. If this wheel works I think it's because of the swastika or it could be because the springs force is mechanically changing distance of weight up and down and all of the springs effort is released on one side of the wheel. Is that really all you can add? You obviously made such a fuss about it because you can see that it would do what I'm saying. Well if the spring retards movement in one quarter and advances it in another if the movement is vertical when its advancing movement then it might cause a significant help in turning a wheel overbalanced.