Zeroing in on Bessler's wheel

[preoccupied]

• There will be a gradient between the downward & upward movement of the mass & that difference will cause an eternal rotation.

By gradient do you mean a ramp? My design uses a horizontal ramp under a swastika to push a wheel barrow with no resistance.

[WaltzCee]

no preoccupied, not a ramp

@ TDC the mass will be slung down, & 2 or 3 times on the way to BCD it will be kicked in the arse.

That downward journey should have enough energy in it to get some work & return it back to TDC & go again.

There will be a gradient or difference of potential between down & up.

That's the plan anyway

[JUBAT]

I had further thoughts last night about a movement that could be interesting. It's related to how a top works when you spin it with a rope. That is something I had never considered before.

It's kind of related to ths: https://www.history.swannanoavalleymuse ... whirligig/

And these rail twirlers: https://nationalautismresources.com/lig ... l-twirler/

Imagine you tie a shoe string to a door knob - then wrap the string around your finger once and put the other end in your mouth. Pull firmly to keep the shoelace taught. Now spin your finger. See how your finger moves back and forth along that string? Your finger is the axle of a flywheel that has an off-center weight in it.

So if you can imagine a flywheel with the off-center weight so that the flywheel always wants its heavy side down, stand that flywheel up like you're getting ready to roll it downhill. Now take your shoelace - in fact 2 of them - and suspend them from something, wrap both shoelaces around the axle in the same direction of that flywheel. I'm sure there is a minimum diameter the flywheel needs to be in relation to its axle diameter so that when the off-center weight in the flywheel drops it down, the entire thing climbs up the rope. It wouldn't climb much, but the falling of this smaller weight (1 quarter) lifts the entire flywheel (4 quarters).

If the 2 shoelaces were strung from a hub to the perimeter of the wheel. you'd have to be clever how to control the travel of this flywheel along the shoelaces. Reason being, if you left the flywheel with its off-center weight hanging down throughout rotation, as the wheel rotates the entire flywheel would start to climb or descend along your shoelaces depending on which way you wound them around the axle.

<wheel rotating to the right>
So it seems to me this is a great jacobs-ladder analogy in that the small weight can drop thereby lifting the entire flywheel. As the wheel rotates, you could just leave everything alone until you get to 6 o'clock, then let the weight spin the flywheel backwards so it "climbs" the rope (by being closer to the hub. Once you hit noon, let the weight fall forward and the flywheel climbs up again.

It isn't much of a movement, but certainly the overall mass would shift just enough to change the overall mass distribution in the wheel. It really becomes an OOB wheel at that point.

The problems of course with this design are if you really do suspend the weight/masses on shoe strings, they will sag and do things that aren't very nice to the alignment of the weights and the distribution of mass in the wheel. It's just another food-for-thought moment.

[johannesbender]

I had experiments with these , trust me they dont break the law of mechanical advantage as in the distance to force ratio does not result in something like a small mass drop and high climb , they act perfectly in accordance with the laws , it will not climb 4 times more with 4 times less weight , in fact its just a pulley.

[JUBAT]

Well shucky darns. I thought i had something there. Da Ewe needs to harp on something regarding ab hammer so I can polish off this bottle of rum.

[WaltzCee]

Sorry for derailing your thread like that Sam.

How's the build coming?

[JUBAT]

My apologies as well. I should have started a new topic. I'll be more mindful of this in the future.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Waltcy, JUBAT;
No, it's fine. Anything about the wheel is relevant as far as I'm concerned. Besides you are keeping me alive.

The build has been delayed. The disks that I bought were way too heavy. I sent for thinner ones, 1/2 inch X 9 inch. Not here yet; they should be about 10 lbs. each. Duel disks with the lever inserted between them,(for guiding them), is a major break through, (for just getting it to work mechanically). How to guide them is critical, for success------------Sam

[WaltzCee]

No, it's fine. Anything about the wheel is relevant as far as I'm concerned. Besides you are keeping me alive.

Excellent!

I think this is the year of a working wheel. Hang in there Sam.

[Sam Peppiatt]

A review for the new wheel;
The Ring & Rollers may indeed be the long sought after prime mover. Before any weight can fall, it has to be lifted up some how. Maybe they will fix that problem. More accurately called duel disks and drums. The giant problem of guiding them has been solved, with the addition of the bell crank between the two of them. At the moment, a thinner disk(s) is easier to deal with.

The bell crank will shift the weights in at 9:00 and back out at 3:00, for CW rotation. However, there is a risk of back torque particularly at the 6:00 position. That is to say; the weight will tend to roll the disks backwards. To minimize the problem;
I'm thinking that the diameter of the disk should be close to the I.D. of the drum. They will be 9" to 11"; in order to make it harder for the disk to roll back wards. That's the idea of it anyway. Also, a toggle spring should help at 6 & 12.

To get more displacement of the weights,(more torque), the disks have to get bigger and, the drums have to get bigger. Anyway, that's the way things are starting to shape up-----------------------------Sam

[WaltzCee]

Good to hear from you Sam.

I didn't build my last idea. As I was analyzing it, it became evident the differences I imagined didn't exist. That idea was more about how to do it rather than what to do.

Fear not.

A lot of people might do this, but what I do is put very basic ideas on a disc to see if they behave as I imagine they will when rotated. I haven't done that with my present idea. Mostly I've pushed a pencil examining it. So far it looks fantastic. {Looks good on paper :) }

Setting and resetting an OB is a classic problem. This idea seems to solve that problem.

As usual, I'm very confident.

Keep truckin' Sam!

[Sam Peppiatt]

That sounds good waltcy! Keep it going; you never know what might work--------------------Sam

[andyblues]

in deed sometimes simply knowing what does not work is more valuable good luck all

[Sam Peppiatt]

A progress report, FWEIW:
The two drums are done, the cross bar, and the parts for the two bell cranks. The first disk is chucked in the lath ready to cut a groove for the "O" ring,( rubber tire), to reduce noise.

I've always suspected that noise, was the reason that the long duration test was cut short. I can just hear Karl's girl friend-----" If that ______,______ wheel runs one more ______,______ night I'm out of here"----------------Sam

[Sam Peppiatt]

Another up date,
At the 6:00 position, the discs tend to roll foreword a little bit, which causes back torque. The plan is to put the toggle spring out at a slight angle. This should fix the problem. The operation of the discs and bell crank / lever is ghastly smooth. With the "O" rings for rubber tires, they don't make a sound. It's a little spooky.

Hopefully this change will lead to a runner------------------------Sam