Perpetual Motion is Impossible

[agor95]

Hello Fletcher

A well crafted and balanced statement of your current position.

All the Best

[thx4]

My template ..

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

"When you hear hooves think horses, not zebras."

"Follow the energy/fuel"

So far everything is clear, after that I did not understand anything 😊

Just a moment on MT 138, according to my understanding of the moment it becomes clear that it is a rebus, which does not give the way to do but the DIRECTION and everything becomes obvious, I decided to finish with this story and whatever happens you will see something this week, B is no longer in my priorities that's why it drags.
A++

[Fletcher]

My template ..

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

"When you hear hooves think horses, not zebras."

"Follow the energy/fuel"

So far everything is clear, after that I did not understand anything 😊

Just a moment on MT 138, according to my understanding of the moment it becomes clear that it is a rebus, which does not give the way to do but the DIRECTION and everything becomes obvious, I decided to finish with this story and whatever happens you will see something this week, B is no longer in my priorities that's why it drags.
A++

Thanx Agor .. I tried to be as clear as I could manage.


Hi Thx4 .. lol .. I think you understand more than you let on ..

As far as the Toy's Page is concerned (MT138-141) then imo it is definitely a puzzle to be solved - and a Rebus is as good as any other type of puzzle if imo it gets you thinking beyond literal parts being bolted together.

As for not understanding the bulk of what I wrote in the post :7) - let me simplify it for you. I don't believe B. found a fuel/energy source first, and then designed some mechanics to exploit the gradient he found so his non-runners became runners. Much more simple than that.

Imo I believe he took classical OOB wheels that were torque conservative non-runners and added some mechanics to them that turned them into runners i.e. they were no longer torque conservative. And imo he achieved this by looking into ways to reduce the back-torque of his non-runners. It is my belief that he found a mechanical method to do that, which resulted in more positive torque than negative torque (i.e. asymmetric torque). He may not even have thought at all about the "energy" source - why would he particularly ? - job was done. And possibly as far as he was concerned gravity force and excess weight (overbalance) was the main player of note that directly lead to an increase in wheel momentum etc of his runners.

Good luck finishing up your design etc. The point is for 'us' to put as much combined pressure on finding a viable solution to B's. puzzle as we can, and crack it. You have a potential solution which may or may not be B's. mechanical solution. Mr Tim thinks he has a solution. I think I may have a mechanical solution that may or may not be B's. mechanical solution (he didn't leave a cohesive blue-print imo). JC thinks he has B's solution (he thinks B. did leave a very real trail to be understood and followed to a viable runner). And others are at various stages of development and testing. Usually we build mechs and bench test them before committing to a full wheel as you are doing currently. So everybody is at various stages in their journey of understanding and path to completion and conclusions.

Best of luck to us all.

[thx4]

Merci Fletcher de cette clarification 😊
Effectivement plusieurs membres ont leur propre conviction (certitude), j’ai moi-même dit sur ce site dit que je n’étais pas très loin, voir plus… La réalité est plus coriace.
Cette fois c’est un peu différent, tout est vraiment logique, tout s’imbrique vraiment bien, Je dis que ce n’est pas perpétuel, c’est juste pour me rassurer et je n’en sais rien tant que je n’ai pas fini le montage final.
On ne s’est jamais vu directement mais nous nous téléphonons au moins une fois par semaine avec mon ami Robinhood46, nous échangeons et comparons nos idées quelques fois la tension est a son comble, je veux souvent avoir raison, et il me démontre que j’ai tort, nous utilisons beaucoup le tableau blanc qui est sur le forum, je pense que nous avons grâce à cette technique, gagnés des jours de calcul, et de logique tronquée.
Récemment nous nous sommes aperçus que nous discutions de choses différentes alors que nous pensions parler de la même chose (dans la même langue), c’est dire la difficulté de pouvoir se comprendre sur des choses compliquées. C’est à travers ces discussions que je suis arrivé à la conviction que le MP de B était probablement quelque chose qui n’avait rien à voir avec une roue en déséquilibre, et je suis reparti sur autre chose.
Compte tenu que le temps passe, et on ne sait jamais, j’envoie dans la journée aux membres suivant par MP j’espère que cela marche…
Fletcher, Tarsier79, et JC, l’explication de la remonté de poids ainsi que le fonctionnement global, ils pourront me donner leur conviction, et si cela peut être utile lol 😊
Que les autres membres me pardonnent mais une fois le montage terminé ce sera public dans très peu de temps.

A++
Thank you Fletcher for this clarification 😊
Effectively several members have their own conviction (certainty), I myself said on this site said I wasn't too far off, see more... The reality is tougher.
This time it's a little different, everything is really logical, everything fits together really well, I say it's not perpetual, it's just to reassure myself and I don't know until I've finished the final edit.
We never saw each other directly but we call each other at least once a week with my friend Robinhood46, we exchange and compare our ideas sometimes the tension is at its peak, I often want to be right, and he shows me that I'm wrong, we use a lot the whiteboard which is on the forum, I think that we have thanks to this technique, gained days of calculation, and truncated logic.
Recently we realized that we were discussing different things when we thought we were talking about the same thing (in the same language), that's how difficult it is to understand each other on complicated things. It is through these discussions that I came to the conviction that B's PM was probably something that had nothing to do with an unbalanced wheel, and I went back to something else.
As time goes by, and you never know, I'm sending out the next members PM's later today, I hope it works...
Fletcher, Tarsier79, and JC, the explanation of the weight lift as well as the global functioning, they will be able to give me their conviction, and if it can be useful lol 😊
May the other members forgive me but once the editing is done it will be public in a very short time.

A++

[WaltzCee]

May the other members forgive me but once the editing is done it will be public in a very short time.

Hello thx4,

How are you going to go public with your work?

[agor95]

^^ Yes I know - mech before fuel is an arse about face approach - So far I am quite happy with the potential Prime Movers' progress and resilience (as determined by me).

This is going to sound crazy, but I am looking at a conservative system were the input energy source required too increase rotation is internal not external.

It appears not to be coming from the moving parts. It appears to be coming from the connectedness principle.

Now I need to prove it so the above statement appears less crazy; That is the Quest.

P.S. So do not worry about the energy source. The right mech does not need one.

All the Best

[WaltzCee]

My theory is closer to this:

• Intrinsic to the fabric of 4d time/space is the means/mechanism for it to propagate itself infinitely.

It appears not to be coming from the moving parts. It appears to be coming from the connectedness principle.

Do you use up in a flash technology A-bore?



Got it, thx4

[preoccupied]

In my case I don't think the issue is whether over balanced wheel is possible, it's whether you like the person who invents it. My swinging weights from 4:1 gears at the corner of a square, my stork's bill and spring, my swastika with the use of a horizontal ramp would all work in which the swastika is the most practical for producing work. The stork's bill and spring is just factually conceptually overbalanced it's not practical and would be difficult to build. I was offended when basic science was ignored in favor of disregarding me because you don't like me. It's not a good overbalanced wheel. I had been avoiding saving information on my computer because I thought that I was being spied on. But apparently I am spied on when I talk and live as I do things on my computer I think. So it doesn't matter if I save something or not. I have no time to develop ideas because they will be stolen if I don't post it on twitter or something. And I can't build anything. I am incapable of building anything. The 4:1 gears at the corners of squares has solid measurements showing it would reach overbalanced positions. And my assumption for its positions was a good idea too the infinitely reloading ramps from three positions. because the second highest ramp is the only ramp you need to fully reload because you only need 1 weight to lift 4 up to reload the top ramp. It's infinite as long as the second highest ramp is reached. The positions of the ramps is what is important because it shows where you can positions weights on a 4:1 swinging gears on a square. It's all patterns. I can see those patterns in this example. The swastika that utilizes that horizontal ramp is pure genius. When you push into a wheel barrow you lose torque due to the angle but you face no resilience on a horizontal ramp. Despite pushing almost no load because of that you still lose about 60% of the energy/torque because of the angle that the wheel barrow hits the ramp. The wheel absolutely has enough torque to push zero load so it will always work but it is slowed down only by either the added loads or the angle at which it hits the ramp. You can't find information online to calculate this because it should be just a ramp calculation. It is just a ramp calculation and the lever on the wheel barrow does not push into the levers on the main wheel because it pushes directly into the axle. And if there were ever an idea that would have practical application for the swastika this is it because of that. So I've had solutions and you guys only want me to be stolen from. You don't care if I have the right ideas. You want me to not build my wheels because you know I have difficulty building potentially. I feel incredibly trolled that algodoo is suggested as a simulation program. That is the glitchiest crap that I've ever tried to use. It's like as if it were deliberately made bad as planned obsolescence to make expensive software righteously worth its weight in gold. I am not a troll. I am probably God. My time travel duplicates are great people in history and god calls himself the great I am. I know one of my duplicates is Yahweh an Egyptian engineer who time traveled and flooded the Earth. Imagine a planet full of volcanoes and a huge ecosystem were enriched by new water. I did that. I absorb my time travel events in a bright white energy and gain information about what happens. That's how I know who my duplicates are. Yahweh believed that he absorbed information about creating the Universe at a young age. Now I'm not sure if he manifested the entire Universe but if he could be an entity before birth that he absorbed information from in a white light at a young age, I think it's possible he might have dictated some form of influence on reality because of his many time travel events that is if a spirit could exist of himself in that scenario before his own reality. If I do control the fate of billions of soles and an after life it's not looking good because I am willing to damn reality to eternal damnation. I would be more impressive if I didn't have traumatic brain damage from being assaulted. I swear I had like a 400+ IQ when I was in kindergarten and achieved like multiple doctorate degrees and was building an investment bank using cassette recordings. You don't like that. You think it's drama or something possibly. I do not get any respect and maybe I don't deserve it. But I know that I'm right about my perpetual motion machine ideas.

[JUBAT]

Bessler wheel rules to live by:

If you think you solved it, did you build it? If answer is no, start over. If answer is yes, proceed.
When you built it, did it work? If no, start over. If yes, continue.
Congratulations. You solved it.

No amount of thinking, diagrams, time travel, etc. gets you off the hook. Follow these rules strictly if you want credit for solving the wheel. Nothing else matters. Prove me wrong. Note keyword: prove

[WaltzCee]

I came running the moment I heard the news. How could it be? This one born at the apex of evolution, born multiple geniuses rolled up in one casing of dust, had devolved to such an extent, they couldn't manage to wipe their own patootie?

I was naturally saddened & befuddled simultaneously. Befuddled because it didn't make me cry. I couldn't squeeze out a single tear. I gave it another go & contemplated it again. Still nothing.

I'm going to keep trying on my end but in the mean time I think you should practice taking care of your personal business.

You're beginning to smell.

[agor95]

... If you think you solved it, did you build it? If answer is no, start over. If answer is yes, proceed.
When you built it, did it work? If no, start over. If yes, continue.

Congratulations. You solved it.

I would include simulations in the list. However the advice is sound regardless.

All the Best

[Sam Peppiatt]

Waltcy,
I tend to agree with you. Critics; there is a sameness about them; I've often wondered, why do they do it? What do they get out of it, you know things like that. Maybe some one should start a thread pertaining to critics--------------------Sam

[WaltzCee]

Dunno Sam. Maybe a factor is, as the mind of each, so is the man.

[Tarsier79]

TXH. I think there might be some specifics lost in translation.

Are you trying to build a perpetual motion machine? or are you trying to replicate a 90 day run test by dropping a weight using an escapement? To me it sounds like #2, but hoping to achieve #1.

[eccentrically1]

My template ..

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

"When you hear hooves think horses, not zebras."

"Follow the energy/fuel"

The basic premise is that to output work a runner needs a fuel/energy input. Gravity is a force and not an energy. Therefore to have an 'impossible' runner (based on OOB principles) then it must have an 'improbable' fuel/energy source. We know that environmental forces are far too weak to replicate B's. work tests at his scale. And we can only use technology of his time. Our sources and choices of fuel/energy are ridiculously limited.

** In my case I eventually worked up a simple Prime Mover mech design from an amalgam of the Toy's Page figures, with respect to certain well known MT's. And also keeping cognizant of the constraints of fundamental Physics and Mechanics Conservation Laws and Symmetries. Since traditional OOB wheels are 'torque conservative' then the Prime Mover needed to induce some superior directional force internally within the wheel to create a Net Positive Torque condition, and at the same time not violate Newton's Laws etc. Once I had a bead on what those fundamental mechanics could be, while still being ostensibly an OOB wheel format, then I could begin to deuce and look for a real source of energy that hypothetically caused it to be a self-moving runner. Momentum/RKE appropriation seemed a likely candidate regardless of there being no recognised examples existing in nature at the earths surface (altho known in satelite sling-shot maneuvers to gain KE and speed).

^^ Yes I know - mech before fuel is an arse about face approach - So far I am quite happy with the potential Prime Movers' progress and resilience (as determined by me). No show stopper has been found as yet. It will need a real-world build to fully test its functionality and whether it is fit for purpose as imagined. Imagination is notoriously unreliable and a poor substitute for empirical evidence as we all know only too well in this quest to solve the mechanical conundrum of B's. PM Principle of "excess weight".

Our choices are limited to an energy form that can be taken from a wheel environment since we can’t consider a stand alone onboard energy ‘tank’ (that would need at least 54 days or more of stored energy— which would disqualify it [Karl]). Unless it could somehow refill its own tank through some natural process we can’t fathom yet. If we saw it as Karl might have would we understand it? If we could fathom it, it’s back on the table, yes?

Earth’s motion is part of a wheel’s environment, or is it?
It’s my understanding that motion is relative to two objects if you are considering them interacting. iow, two objects can exchange motions as separate object with two speeds (the slingshot). So relative to the wheel, the earth doesn’t have any motion to interact with. Relative to the earth the wheel doesn’t have any motion. Imo.

Good luck, though. I agree temperature swings are weak. But they’re all that’s left for a wheel environment imo. What else from there is a candidate? I can’t think of anything else.