WORK THAT IS not being done

[rlortie]

A crankshaft has no lobes they are on the cam. A crankshaft has journals that do not rotate but revolve around the crank shaft as it rotates.

Sorry but this means that the compression is out at 3 and in at nine once only per revolution.

Ralph

[SeaWasp]

Just some quick questions regarding this principle... Can anyone answer?
Can curved magnets such as for the track, be purchased?
And Can roller Ring magnets have a continous north or south pole on the rolling edge? ie, can they be manufactured that way?

[Wheeler]

Sea Wasp
I think they can manufacture curved magnets, and also the system could run with seperate magnets in place along the curve. This also can be done on the piston side with magnets placed on bearings.
This design may work better.
It would use magnetic timing.

[Wheeler]

Ralph
Your correct about internal combustion engines, but this is a magnet motor, that spins like an engine.
The crankshaft has journals and they also act as lobes.
Also the compression stroke begins at 6 and ends around 11 or 12-oclock.

[SeaWasp]

Yep.. Thanks Wheeler! I Should have thought of that one!

[rlortie]

Magnets of curved design for a small model can be purchased through
www.wondermagnet.com
they have magnets that can make a continuous circle with polaritys in or out.

Ralph

[SeaWasp]

Just wondering what has become of James wheel? Do you have an update on your wheel yet James? I am curious whether using magnets will have any benefits apart from reducing friction in the wheel dynamics. My first wheel was similar in principle to the patented design that James posted, but it keeled in WM2D.
Attached is a rough sketch of it. I am wondering whether magnets would help the weights overcome their tendancy to downward slide along the tracks?

[rlortie]

seawasp,

With new found innovation and more input from James, I am preparing to un-shelve my version. This time I will pay closer heed to his instructions and make no deviations from his plans. For me the project is still very active and I hope to satisfy my quandary of can I make it perform.

I lean heavy on James trust and word as this man has never gave me reason to doubt him. Our relationship has become more that just two forum member working on a design. Our personal attachments run deep.

Your design above reminds me of of Darrell V's wheel with the double ramp. Only difference is his lower ramp started at 6;00 and the upper at 12;00 with weights latched on the ascent. It did not work but showed extended run time after hand starting simply do to kinetic build up in the large mass.

As I wrote Jim_mich, we have instinctively always considered the ascending ramp starting at 6:00. This I now find is one of those times for the head slap and "wow why didn't I think of that".

As for magnets, I did not use them. They may be helpful or a hinderance.

The answer lays in a simple equation of mass, speed and leverage. I am no mathematician but I now believe that James is correct when he stated "without braking control this thing will over speed and self destruct. The lateral force encountered in my own non-working model has already proven that point in my mind.

Ralph

[ken_behrendt]

SeaWasp...

Nice sketch of your design. I've found that my past models using ramps to assist weight shifting were all non-runners. As soon as a weight makes contact with a ramp, counter torques arise that prevent rotation.

I do not think it will make any difference how the ramp is curved or positioned, either. Also, I do not think it makes any difference even if the CG of the weights is always on the descending side of the wheel. Those ramp induced counter torques will stop it every time without fail.

The obvious solution is to shift the weights without using ramps. However, this is easier said than done. If one tries to shift the weights with another set of weights, then one finds that the shift in the CG of those secondary shifter weights will give rise to counter torques that prevent rotation.

One is, like I recently was, eventually forced to conclude that the only possible solution to this ultimate Catch-22 situation is to have a single set of drive weights that will shift themselves! This requires, as I now believe, a very special type of arm to hold each single weight in the set. An arm that will, depending upon the position of the weight in the wheel, respond to gravitational orientation in such a way as to maintain the CG of the wheel's weights constantly on one side of the axle.

Such an arm, I am now firmly convinced, will be made from a tapered steel rod and will have unusual elastic properties. Specifically, it will be able to produce a "whiplash" effect that can rapidly move its attached weight about inside the wheel. And, of course, this is what I now believe the secret of Bessler's wheels was.

Anyway, good luck with your efforts, but, I think, in time you will come to the same conclusion that I have...


ken

[SeaWasp]

The design above was a failed design. I tested it extensively. Working Model confirmed my suspicions right from the start. The problem weights were the 6 and 12 position. I was just not getting enough leverage from the descending side to lift these two weights up the ramps! I thought that by separating the weights, I would not get as much "transference" of weight on the ascending side from the 12 to 2 position. I was right in that respect, but the leverage was not enough to raise the two weights! I have thus put this basic design in the used parts bucket! Even Bessler stated that all of the mechanisms must rotate within the wheel! Ramps don't rotate!

I am now leaning towards what Ken is proposing. A nice simple approach. This is what I believe Bessler utilised in his one way wheel. I don't believe however that his uni-directional wheel was two, one ways, back to back! I believe that he discovered an anomaly in leverage principles which allowed him to shift his weights effectively!

I subscribe to the firm belief that there are many ways to get PM from a design. Just because a design failed does not mean that the basic design is useless! I compare it to a car engine which will work, but not without it's correct parts or timing! This is what we all are essentially trying to build. An engine!

I theorised straight from the beginning of my first design, that if the wheel didn't rotate, then all I had to do was just add a mixture of different parts that would allow it to work! Adding magnets was a part of that! But since the wheel just keeled, I thought that the magnets would have to do much more work that I expected! Hence I did not continue. If the wheel looked like it was "almost" going to work, then I would have pursued the magnets! I am still wondering about that....

[turulato]

SeaWasp:

Welcome to the club, I have posted 4 or 5 different designs and I was told that they would not work based on past experiences, like Ken says;

I've found that my past models using ramps to assist weight shifting were all non-runners.

I even posted one very similar to yours, but it used ramps so the consensus is that it would not work. The interesting thing is that JK uses ramps and he says that it works with magnets and that he had already built one 40 years ago. If you have the means and the talent to built your design then please do. We are all waiting for that first one that will prove the science community and their physics wrong.

Turulato

[rlortie]

Gentleman,

I bring this topic to the top for bad news.

I have recieved word that James Kelly has been diagnosed to have a very large abdominal anurism that is life threatening. To me this is really a punch below the belt as we have grown quite close recently.

For those of you who have been defending God in the off topic forum and those that believe, I ask that you join me in a prayer for his well being.

On November 3, he sent me by certified mail the found original copy of his May 26, 1963 wheel, I shall endevor to complete the rebuild as quickly as possible, for if it works I want him to know and be recognized for it.

I did not have these prints on the first try and James could not remember all the pertinant data. He finally found the print in storage and sent it to me. I do so hope that it will not be considered part of his last testimonial.

Ralph

[ovyyus]

Belief in a god is not necessary in order to wish someone well. Sad to hear the bad news Ralph. If you're able, please pass on my best wishes. From what I've gathered of James, I'm sure he won't go down without a bloody good fight!

[ken_behrendt]

Ralph...

That is, indeed, sad news. It sounds, however, like it can be corrected by surgery. I wish him the best, but, obviously, he won't be doing any wheel construction for a while until he is fully recovered. I know all too well the feeling, but when a health crisis strikes, one must focus what strength he has left on making a recovery, not the search for OU/PM.

You say:

On November 3, he sent me by certified mail the found original copy of his May 26, 1963 wheel

I assume that this is the schematic for his previous working wheel! What a nice gesture to show you how much faith he places in you to keep the design confidential.

Well, I hope you are successful in replicating it. If I was you, I would try to duplicate it as exactly as specified in the schematic as possible...


ken

[rlortie]

Ken,

Exact replication is the key words here.

Below is a quote that John Lindsay wrote on the "Third Law Theory" thread, it explains it better than I can put into words.

Another exception is where you get a"complimentary" reaction from the ineraction of two forces in a cyclical fashion. You can do this with centrifugal force but a gravity workable arrangement will be a bear... do to the different dynamics of one directional force versus all-directional force. Of course the force to gearing ratios (and the mechanical arrangement;) have to be "correct" for a centrifugal type of arrangement or it won't work. Those are the two basic concepts that will induce self rotation in weight/mass related mechanisms that I have found.
John

Thank you John L.

Ralph