Zeroing in on Bessler's wheel

[JUBAT]

I'll keep my hundred bux ready.

I have 2 contingencies before I resort to going viral, Jubat. If I go viral, I'll write a book. Be so kind as to buy a copy. That is of course if my idea works in reality as well as it looks on paper.

• a) There is a pseudo-acceleration when the mass changes colors from grey to green. For a brief moment, the mass's weight moves from where it's resting to where it's suspended. 3rd derivative energy. It happens in a flash.

Jerk energy was first talked about @ BW by Frank Grimmer IIRC. I don't recall if he ever talked about how to capture it or what to do with it.

I see how to capture it in DS2008's graphic & have some speculation how to use it. For what it's worth, my thoughts on Up In A Flash (UIAF) technology predate DS2008.

Well how about I give you $100 for a copy of your book and I would request that for the extra amount, I get an autographed copy. This is assuming of course that a copy of your book will be less than $100. I suspect it'll be a better read than that $20 e-book about slingshots.

[JUBAT]

I'll keep my hundred bux ready.

I have 2 contingencies before I resort to going viral, Jubat. If I go viral, I'll write a book. Be so kind as to buy a copy. That is of course if my idea works in reality as well as it looks on paper.

• a) There is a pseudo-acceleration when the mass changes colors from grey to green. For a brief moment, the mass's weight moves from where it's resting to where it's suspended. 3rd derivative energy. It happens in a flash.

Jerk energy was first talked about @ BW by Frank Grimmer IIRC. I don't recall if he ever talked about how to capture it or what to do with it.

I see how to capture it in DS2008's graphic & have some speculation how to use it. For what it's worth, my thoughts on Up In A Flash (UIAF) technology predate DS2008.

I would agree about the weight being transferred in a flash. It's riding closer to the center of the wheel and then bam the weight is transferred up the pendulum rod to the attachment point. It's so fast in fact, that you can't even see it move. :) Maybe this was the partial solution all along and it just needed the correct connectedness principle to operate the pendulums. Maybe the "broken columns" is the L-shaped piece your pendulum heads lay in until they are dumped out at the top. Kind of like when you snap a tooth-pick - it just kind of lies there at a 90 degree angle. Still, it looks too difficult to build for my taste so whether it's the solution or not, I think I'll just continue to be conservative with my energy use and call it good enough.

I hope for your sake that you're correct about this - but since I have my feet firmly planted in the depths of skepticism - it'll either be an I told you so moment or an I'll be danged moment. I'm sure I'll be pissed that I was wrong, happy you figured it out, and then I'll be confronted with my obvious mental deficiencies in that I couldn't figure it out.

Word to the wise: Lawyer up before you go public - wickedly jealous people have a way of bringing forth lawsuits as a cover for their jealously. Instead of saying, "I'm pissed that you solved it and I didn't so I want part of your money because I feel I deserve it," - they'll come up with some sketch they drew years ago and say you copied it - you know something like DS2008's diagram with the ropes drawn in later in crayon, etc.

I admit I'm jealous of Bessler *if* this isn't some elaborate prank to suck us all in. Here he lived in the 1600s/1700s and despite me knowing a lot about technology, he knew the mechanical answer to ppm and makes me look retarded. Then the icing on the cake will be to have someone solve it in this modern age, again making me look retarded, look the fool, and then having to live with severe disappointment that I couldn't figure it out. Not even a little part of it.

Years ago a local radio station had a treasure hunt. I worked so hard to find it and despite my best efforts, someone else still found it. That's a sore spot that a full decade + later, I'm still not over. The disappointment has haunted me and just bringing this up, brings back all the pain of my inadequacies which is the stage of my life on which I've performed.

Anyway, my $100 for your book will be kept handy. Let me know if I get to spend it on something else on Boxing Day.

[preoccupied]

How do you plan to improve the design? I don't understand your idea. I noted where the weights can cancel out color coded in my mutilation of the drawing. The extra weight that can't be lifted clockwise also can't lift the weight on the ramp that is yellow counterclockwise either so it just gets stuck there.

ds2008 not overbalanced.png (27.58 KiB) Viewed 621 times

[preoccupied]

This is how I would try to improve the design. I hope author of this idea doesn't mind me making him look foolish if I correct his design into a working perpetual motion machine GIGGITY!

ds2008 now overbalanced2.png (31 KiB) Viewed 619 times

I put springs on the levers to pull them to the right and I added a horizontal bar that can hold a weight on its end. It does make the wheel overbalanced in the positions its drawn as but how much more resistance does the ramp give to the wheel now that there is a spring on it?

[Sam Peppiatt]

Waltcy,
looks like there are 5 weights above the center line and 7 below. I'm afraid that's a bad sign--------------------Sam

[WaltzCee]

Appreciate your response Sam. A bit ago I was bored and started reviewing the forum. Found this animation so I thought I'd dredge it up and discuss it.

I never claimed this was my idea.

As I've mentioned I hold my cards close to my vest. This is an example of what I'd term pseudo-acceleration, where the force on the CoR moves at a high rate as the mass causing it barely moves.

I've had that idea for some time yet I've always considered what to do with it too Rube Goldberg-ish.

By itself, this motion is the proverbial dead duck. However it might be used as a timing sensor triggering some mechanics addressing the bottom heavy nature you astutely noted.

Might be a bridge to far.

[WaltzCee]

Well how about I give you $100 for a copy of your book and I would request that for the extra amount, I get an autographed copy. This is assuming of course that a copy of your book will be less than $100. I suspect it'll be a better read than that $20 e-book about slingshots.

:) The cart (book) can't be put in front of the horse (a working model). I'm not Ken B or Jim L.

A book is option C or D. I'm going to try and sell it to big oil first.

The idea I'm posting on Sam's thread isn't my idea, just my thoughts on someone else's idea.

[WaltzCee]

I can't figure out if you've been hit in the haid too many times, Jon, or not enough.

[preoccupied]

I can't figure out if you've been hit in the haid too many times, Jon, or not enough.

The thing that makes the spring useful is that the mechanism does reduce weight issues by using the ramp, it just has bad weight positioning. When the weight hits the ramp 0% of it is resisting because the weight doesn't push back with leverage and the total overbalance force of the mechanism is cut by 0.3 in an instant because it hits the ramp at about 45 degrees. The issues was never that the ramp is causing resistance because it's not. It's that the weights are counterbalanced on both CW and CCW rotation by their weight positions. The spring that is being applied to the ramp will not face any resistance, like I described that the ramp does not resist it just deducts total power from the angle. The spring could be powerful enough as to smash violently against the side of the wheel AND it would not effect the loading onto the ramp even a little, an inefficient spring would just reduce its load capacity because it would serve to reduce the total power output of the wheel. The spring would have to be over 30% inefficient in order to halter the wheel from moving. This is a real solution to making a perpetual motion machine like many of my other designs and you fools are stupid to not engage on my ideas as much as each others ideas, as my ideas are from Sir Isaac Newton because I am Sir Isaac Newton. I am not a dialoging super villain I am a mad scientist who got a head injuries that before that invented a time machine and now is recovering from his concussions by designing perpetual motion machines although I can't really do math that well. Overbalance wheels has got to be the easiest of the mad science spectrum technology. If I can't do this then I can't really call myself a mad scientist now Can I? By claiming that I'm special in regards to my accomplishments in the past I am treated like a monster because of the grandeur involved. You are all going to suffer from the rectitude of being a normal loser when you invent a perpetual motion machine and you would have no credibility with a normal person when you claim that you're a mad scientist unless they are your fan boy and you are a major celebrity who has them. You are all pieces of shit for ignoring me whomever has decided to do it. And maybe I'm wrong about my assumptions about the physics of the horizontal ramp. I am a recovering mad scientist, not an actual mad scientist at the moment.

Castlevania: Symphony of the night - What is a man?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tV33Ewf_hw

[Sam Peppiatt]

preoccupied,
I don't mean to ignore you; mainly I can't offer any good advice, so I don't respond. I try not to be a critic, so I don't say any thing. Maybe that's even worse------------------------Sam

[WaltzCee]

.
Here are some results (SIM) from June 21 of a mech similar to the hanging pendulum as the force of the mass moves from where it's resting to where it's suspended.
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My present design uses that spike to impart some sense in the wheel (up or down) and also triggers the imbalance/balance mechanism
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Mr GIGGITY! wrote:

This is how I would try to improve the design. I hope author of this idea doesn't mind me making him look foolish if I correct his design into a working perpetual motion machine GIGGITY!

I'm not sure who the author of the design is, yet I think their initials are 'DS'. It looks like you really GIGGITYed it up.

[preoccupied]

Sam, It would be nice to have some criticism at least on the mechanics. Tarsier79 offers criticism but doesn't get into details about why. It's like nobody is willing to explain or criticize my ideas but they do each others. saying Giggityed it up what the hell does that mean? Do you mean that I did good? That you agree with my mechanics?, WaltzCee

[WaltzCee]

Giggityed it up what the hell does that mean? Do you mean that I did good? That you agree with my mechanics?, WaltzCee

It means you took a giggityed up design, assumed it was mine, then proceeded to giggity it up even further. All that without considering what I had said about the idea.

I'm going to discuss this idea and point out what I consider its merits.

• a) There is a pseudo-acceleration when the mass changes colors from grey to green. For a brief moment, the mass's weight moves from where it's resting to where it's suspended. 3rd derivative energy. It happens in a flash.

• b) When the color goes from green to yellow, the class of lever changes, like finger nail clippers.

My thoughts on this animation are any mechanical changes need to be inline with some overall design theme.

I am presently using 3rd derivative power in my design to sense when the wheel is upright and upside down. Further I'm using that same power to accuate imbalance/balance.

That is the design theme of my present build. A question might be could this animation be modified to that extent?

That's the discussion I was hoping to cause.

[WaltzCee]

• b) When the color goes from green to yellow, the class of lever changes, like finger nail clippers.

any ideas of how to use a change in the class of lever maybe addressing Sam's point:

• Waltcy,
  looks like there are 5 weights above the center line and 7 below. I'm afraid that's a bad sign--------------------Sam

ETA
The main design objective of my present build is:

• Construct an analogue computer addressing contemporary scientific objections to perpetual motion.

Any mechanical contraption not inline with that objective is dismissed.

[JUBAT]

Might your mechanism look similar to a mechanical logic gate? When you google that up you see allusions to the hammer toys all over the place: https://www.google.com/search?q=mechani ... 72&dpr=1.5