MTs, WM2D, and WM Basic Language Script Code

[Fletcher]

An after-thought jb ..

I also believe B's. wheels had to be anchored to the earth so to speak e.g. heavish wheels where frictional forces between stand and floor stopped them moving laterally .. or in the case of the well known Merseburg and Kassel bi-directional wheels the stands were anchored to the floor AND ceiling with bolts .. otherwise you'd just build a box stand etc and lift it where you wanted it - so there was a reason to robustly attach them to something "immovable" ..

The juxtaposition argument is to build a wheel and place it inside a box frame stand etc, and put wheels on the corners to easily move it around - or put it on train tracks etc - B. didn't do this, even for the Merseburg translocation tests .. he could have wheeled it across to the next stand and swapped out the wheel rather than lift it across etc ..

I don't think my theory would work if the wheel with the Prime Movers mechs was mounted on wheels on a train track etc - the assembly would probably sway backwards and forwards and just not be able to accelerate and be self-moving i.e. slow and stop ..

That is why in trying to describe where the extra energy possibly came from I created the theory of the wheel being a parasite to earth's angular momentum to give itself momentum .. if it could sway (rock) back and forth on tracks easily this exchange required probably couldn't happen efficiently, if at all ..

And was possibly why Borlach noticed the Merseburg stand frame lifting and falling during rotation - an internal action and reaction force was causing this to happen imo .. and if the stand was able to longitudinally expand and contract slightly then the wheel wasn't probably as efficient as it could have been had things been "tight" imo ..

[daxwc]

Fletcher: I also believe B's. wheels had to be anchored to the earth so to speak e.g. heavish wheels where frictional forces between stand and floor stopped them moving laterally .. or in the case of the well known Merseburg and Kassel bi-directional wheels the stands were anchored to the floor AND ceiling with bolts .. otherwise you'd just build a box stand etc and lift it where you wanted it - so there was a reason to robustly attach them to something "immovable" ..

Were not his first wheels displayed at fairs? I doubt if they were outside they were anchored as such. Now to do his lift of weights through the window one can see due to leverage it needed to be anchored properly.

[ovyyus]

Daxwc, I don't recall mention of Bessler ever exhibiting at a fair. I do remember mention of an exhibition during or around a particular public holiday (Whitsunday?).

Fletcher, I do think a movable frame with wheels would have made the translocation demonstrations a little less awkward. But Bessler might have been paranoid that someone would wheel it away, or even push it over, if it wasn't securely mounted. It sounds like some of his demonstrations were pretty rowdy. Perhaps the bolted floor to ceiling axle mounts were the simplest and most secure method of mounting the wheel? I don't recall any mention of how the smaller Gera wheel was mounted but I bet it was pretty secure to prevent someone running away with it. Given that everything was riding on these demonstration wheels, I doubt Bessler would have taken security lightly.

[Fletcher]

dax .. he built and demonstrated in rooms at his houses ..

Bill .. perfectly plausible explanations and I can't argue with the logic .. except, there's always one from me isn't there - he could have built a box frame with bracing and mounted his demo wheels inside those - they could sit on the ground (large contact surface area) or have wheels that were either wedge chocked or locked down with a chain and lock to the floor - OR - he could just drill down thru the bottom plate of the box frame and bolt secure into the flooring (or jack top plate to ceiling) - if it is well braced no one is going to unbolt it and take it away or push it over etc, rowdy or not ..

On the very big plus side really easy to push a lifting trolley under one end and pick it up and shift it when required.

Then we have the Merseburg wheel lifting and falling - that's not going to happen in a heavish wheel in a braced box frame with large foot plate contact area - unless - it just might hop or flex a bit and that was not a risk to take ..

Just thoughts as devil's advocate ..

[ovyyus]

I'm all for a devil's advocate :D

However... the simplest construction is two beams bolted to floor and ceiling as he adopted. IMO, simplest is usually bestest, all things being equal.

[agor95]

Hello Fletcher

I am fine with the effect of motion on the unidirectional and bidirectional as you described.

So we should look for motion of masses that effect our wheel frames in a similar manor.

A wheel in it's frame would only topple over when it's CoM moves either beyond the base of it's stand. Or the internal stresses combine to push making the CoM appear to go beyond the base.

There is a case for translation requiring the bolting in the bi-directional frame as stated.
However it could also be rotational. Looking at one side of a wheel you would see the wheel lift while the other side it would be in compression.

Regards

[johannesbender]

An after-thought jb ..

I also believe B's. wheels had to be anchored to the earth so to speak e.g. heavish wheels where frictional forces between stand and floor stopped them moving laterally .. or in the case of the well known Merseburg and Kassel bi-directional wheels the stands were anchored to the floor AND ceiling with bolts .. otherwise you'd just build a box stand etc and lift it where you wanted it - so there was a reason to robustly attach them to something "immovable" ..

The juxtaposition argument is to build a wheel and place it inside a box frame stand etc, and put wheels on the corners to easily move it around - or put it on train tracks etc - B. didn't do this, even for the Merseburg translocation tests .. he could have wheeled it across to the next stand and swapped out the wheel rather than lift it across etc ..

I don't think my theory would work if the wheel with the Prime Movers mechs was mounted on wheels on a train track etc - the assembly would probably sway backwards and forwards and just not be able to accelerate and be self-moving i.e. slow and stop ..

That is why in trying to describe where the extra energy possibly came from I created the theory of the wheel being a parasite to earth's angular momentum to give itself momentum .. if it could sway (rock) back and forth on tracks easily this exchange required probably couldn't happen efficiently, if at all ..

And was possibly why Borlach noticed the Merseburg stand frame lifting and falling during rotation - an internal action and reaction force was causing this to happen imo .. and if the stand was able to longitudinally expand and contract slightly then the wheel wasn't probably as efficient as it could have been had things been "tight" imo ..

If the lifting post was real , i imagine if it was not fixed in place , that the movement inside would have caused it to move around and come to a stop .

A good example , imagine a pendulum , a simple disc with a mass at 12 ,however the disc is mounted on a trolley ,and you are holding the disc in place with your hand such that when released it would swing , now release the disc and allow the pendulum to swing , when the pendulum swings
the trolley should start rolling about and weaken the pendulum swing.

[daxwc]

Daxwc, I don't recall mention of Bessler ever exhibiting at a fair. I do remember mention of an exhibition during or around a particular public holiday (Whitsunday?).

Hmm… maybe I am wrong. I remember something from a Dresden newspaper just before they taxed his wheel.

[daxwc]

For, in 1712, during his stay at Gera in the Voigtland, he hit upon the genuine Prepondium, and so it was that on 6th June of that year he set in motion the first model of his Perpetual or self-moving Mobile, three and a half Leipzig Ell in diameter and four inches in thickness, for the very first time. (page 7) But later it was demonstrated on many occasions in the presence of the Count himself and many others persons of high rank, including renowned mathematicians, engineers and scholars versed in all of Nature’s curiosities. The machine was even moved about from one place to another, but never failed to run as designed, and as a result of all this it could clearly be attested that the device’s performance was authentic. GB

I haven’t been able to find the quote about the fair but I did find this about his smaller models.

[ovyyus]

Daxwc, I think that article is describing two different wheels, the smaller Gera wheel (not witnessed by Karl) and a later translocated wheel (witnessed by Karl).

[daxwc]

So it was that at the house of the Richters (On the hill called Nickelsberg) in the year 1712 I achieved the discovery of the wondrous device that has amazed the world so much. My industry was spared the curses which accompanied the earlier efforts. The machine stood 3 feet high, and was mounted in such a fashion that anyone could walk all around it.

Hmm…

ChatGPT translation:
XXIV GOD takes care of the evening and the morning Now, very much for me; Gave luck and blessings at all times To my important work. With princes, counts, great people, I went only at those times; My place of residence was known In GERA (in the Reuss Land) Where I, at Mr. Cousin Langen's, Started anew In my peaceful marriage, The PERPETUUM MOBILE: It quickly began to work for me; Though no room suited me Where I placed it in the house; So I found another one, There I found large and beautiful rooms, And it could be alone with me; At judges on the Nickelsberg There I found the miracle In the year 12 and 17 hundred; That caused great astonishment: The curse retreated from my diligence; My work was over three and a half feet high. It used to stand freely. So that everyone could walk around it. If I threw the bolt from the slit, The wheel ran fast (like lightning). (45) Whoever desired it could push it Wherever one wanted, at will; There was no deception in it; So I was not troubled at all. But soon my conscience told me, Let this gracious authority know, From whom I also received great kindness And love and honor and protection: Because Your Gracious Grace Often invited me to the table. Even now I ran to a dear place To the gracious Countess, (Where I had previously Sat until late at night). For I found much wisdom with her, Knowledge, art, virtue, understanding: I made known to her the true miracle That had been given to me now, Immediately the dearest matron Had joy and delight about it. Raised her hands high And used to praise God with me. Many beautiful speeches about this Were made here, it is certain. XXV

Anyway not sure it matters much, not trying to be anal although it is starting to look that way.

[ArchCalc]

All that was needed for a translocation is another set of axle supports just inches away. Lift one end of the axle up and over to the new one, the do the same with the one at the other end. Done!

[daxwc]

ovyyus: Daxwc, I think that article is describing two different wheels, the smaller Gera wheel (not witnessed by Karl) and a later translocated wheel (witnessed by Karl).

1715 Jun Exhibited third wheel at home in Merseburg, bi-directional push-starting, 11 ft x 11 inches, rotates at 46 rpm.
1715 GB – Grundlicher Bericht (Thorough Report), Bessler, Germany, 1st book.
1715 Oct.31st. Official examination and tests are conducted including a translocation of the wheel to prove the posts are not hollowed-out. Official certificate of approval issued. Gartner, Borlach and Wagner continue to make accusations of fraud despite inability to explain or replicate Bessler's demonstrations.

I guess that is a possibility but the timeline is tight.


/5

[daxwc]

June 1715 - Leipzig Post Zeitungen, published for week of 24th - 30th (Merseburg):
“An illness which has afflicted the famous Mr. Orffyreus has prevented him from exhibiting, at the Easter Leipzig Fair, as he wished to do, a new and larger version of the true perpetual motion machine, invented by him. It will be of interest to the public to know that the famous inventor has just informed us that he has brought to perfection a new perpetual motion machine. It was finished with God's help, just before the recent Whitsun Holiday, in his rooms in the Green Manor by the sixth Gate.

I assumed he was going to the fair not the fair was coming to him. But I might be wrong the next machine was in a room.

[daxwc]

Finally, Herr Orffyreus is officially requested to fulfill his promise made in the general Leipziger Zeitung and let his 6-ell wheel run continuously for 8 days in the presence of persons mentioned above. It is not necessary that he situate it in an open field; rather, the run can suitably take place at the location where the wheel now stands; he can free himself from all suspicions of external pulling or driving if he, as he himself has offered, screws out the journals and allows the journal bearings and posts to be inspected closely. Perhaps the whole experiment would end after the lapse of 24 hours.�

There was talk of moving it outside to test.