MTs, WM2D, and WM Basic Language Script Code

[johannesbender]

... If the lifting post was real , i imagine if it was not fixed in place , that the movement inside would have caused it to move around and come to a stop .

A good example , imagine a pendulum , a simple disc with a mass at 12 ,however the disc is mounted on a trolley ,and you are holding the disc in place with your hand such that when released it would swing , now release the disc and allow the pendulum to swing , when the pendulum swings the trolley should start rolling about and weaken the pendulum swing.

jb .. I have built many sims of this pendulum on a trolley arrangement over the years - to mainly test the law of COE ..

I even built versions of the "interrupted pendulum" on wheels - the pend fell and the rope/rod connected a stop on the stand.

When no interruption the pend fulcrum swayed back and forth and the amplitude reduced as you'd expect ..

When interrupted the stand on the trolley moved in jerks across the screen, speeding up and slowing down - but the pend amplitude was reduced just like the You Tube vids etc ..

That linear motion test was my starting point for a comparison with my theoretical Prime Mover mech - and that was when I decided mine wouldn't work linearly as like these experiments of COE held true (i.e. PE + KE = Original GPE given) .. but rotationally might be a different matter - if the wheel stand was at least friction locked to the earth base ..

No time to explain the animation of the sim I just found and grabbed - I'm sure you can follow it ..

Anyways heading out the door on my road trip ..



....................................

No worries it matches my internal sim to a T.

[eccentrically1]

Just getting them out of the supports would have involved some disassembly it seems to me.

That's how I understood the story of moving the wheel at the castle. Bessler removed the weights, put one in a hankie for inspection, made a spring go twang putting a weight back.

Who knows. I think a lot of the facts of this story are immaterial.

I recall the weights had to be removed. Mostly to make it lighter; and not damage any delicate mechs I suppose.
I don't see how the supports allowed for the axle to be lifted out unless the iron shafts were removed, even with the open bearing.
Since they had those cranks on the ends, the supports would need to have a space for them to be lifted through if they weren't removed.
I'm curious since the drawings show only the first option.

I've always thought the spring sound was fishy. A lot of the facts of this story are hard to distinguish from the fictions.

[Tarsier79]

Lets just say we want a wheel that accelerates from start....and lets pretend we have a magical prime mover, plus a gravity OB system. To make it accelerate from stop, we need something preloaded: PE. Either GPEor a compressed or stretched spring. Without intimate knowledge of the innards, a spring fits for me.

[agor95]

The simplest preloading is too put the desk size device flat on a table.
Then rotate it vertically so it is now upright on it's stands base.

There is no need for springs.

Regards

[WaltzCee]

Lets just say we want a wheel that accelerates from start....and lets pretend we have a magical prime mover, plus a gravity OB system. To make it accelerate from stop, we need something preloaded: PE. Either GPEor a compressed or stretched spring. Without intimate knowledge of the innards, a spring fits for me.

Do you imagine anything about this prime mover besides it being preloaded, Tarsier?

[daxwc]

T79: Lets just say we want a wheel that accelerates from start....and lets pretend we have a magical prime mover, plus a gravity OB system. To make it accelerate from stop, we need something preloaded: PE. Either GPEor a compressed or stretched spring. Without intimate knowledge of the innards, a spring fits for me.

Why can’t the wheel be at all times at some degree of overbalance. Say for example all the weights are always on one side of the wheel except the prime mover?

[Tarsier79]

That is a good question, and any answer to that is pure speculation.

In that spirit: consider one OB arm that (magically) flips from bottom to top so it is always OB. For the prime mover to act, it requires 3/4 of the energy of the arm rotating from 12 down to 6. If we stop the wheel when the arm is at 5:00, then release it, we need a way to constantly store energy through its movement. Released at 5:00, the wheel will have nearly 0 acceleration, not enough to enable the "prime mover"...

Adding cross bars complicates the problem and the answer.

[eccentrically1]

A spring would only accelerate it from a stop one time, unless when it decelerated the spring was re-compressed or re-stretched some way. Perhaps a certain number of rpm’s activated a latching mechanism on a spiral torsion spring?

[ovyyus]

How did they lift axle pins out of the bearings?
The pins went through the supports.
Wouldn’t the pins need to be removed?

Nearly two decades ago there was a forum discussion about the axle pins and how the translocation might have been achieved. On page 4 of that discussion Stewart provides a diagram and description that seems fairly compelling. The whole thread is an interesting read.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1055&hilit=translocation&start=45

[WaltzCee]

.

• Characteristics of a Prime Mover:
  • a) It has life within itself
  • b) self moves
  • c) guesses?

]

[WaltzCee]

anyone ever get this msg while editing one of their posts?

Foo bar?
Foo you!!

[eccentrically1]

How did they lift axle pins out of the bearings?
The pins went through the supports.
Wouldn’t the pins need to be removed?

Nearly two decades ago there was a forum discussion about the axle pins and how the translocation might have been achieved. On page 4 of that discussion Stewart provides a diagram and description that seems fairly compelling. The whole thread is an interesting read.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1055&hilit=translocation&start=45

Ah, yes.

. To relocate the wheel, the cranks/pivots are unscrewed allowing the wheel to be lowered to the floor and rolled to the second set of supports.

[JUBAT]

.
IMG_20230629_180127.jpg

• Characteristics of a Prime Mover:
  • a) It has life within itself
  • b) self moves
  • c) guesses?

]

A bouncy ball in a rotating drum? Or the game you play with 4 people inside of a giant rubber band - 2 people run towards each other and trade places which makes the 2 people perpendicular to the first run towards each other and trade places. Lycra tube I guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8TkXixqA70

[WaltzCee]

• .
  
  
  

  • Characteristics of a Prime Mover:
    • a) It has life within itself
    • b) self moves
    • c) guesses?

  
  

A bouncy ball in a rotating drum? Or the game you play with 4 people inside of a giant rubber band - 2 people run towards each other and trade places which makes the 2 people perpendicular to the first run towards each other and trade places. Lycra tube I guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8TkXixqA70

I was attempting to start a discussion around the characteristics of a prime mover, Jubat. Here's the wiki definition:

• Engineering
  
  • Prime mover (engine), motor, a machine that converts various other forms of energy (chemical, electrical, fluid pressure/flow, etc) into energy of movement
  • Prime mover (locomotive), one of the several types of power plants used in locomotives to provide traction power
  • Prime mover (tractor unit), a heavy-duty towing engine that provides motive power for hauling a towed or trailered load

My thinking is how can any design a contraption and call it a prime mover, yet not have a clear idea of what a prime mover is?

That is as ridiculous as me duct taping some popsicle sticks together and calling it Walter's Gravity Engine.

Finally, altho not inspired by Bessler, I notice a similarity between his MT & the wm2d results I've seen. Not exact, but close.

[WaltzCee]

An update,
Today working on the slider assy. The back stop clutch,(one way bearing), has to slide back and forth as the rollers shift around inside of the drum. My contention is; the rollers or discs, should be considered the prime move. I.E., they lift the weights back up and in, with the use of a toggle linkage.
Like the sun on a water wheel. The sun lifts the water back up, in order for the wheel to turn and, seams to me, would have to be the so called prime move-----------------------Sam

really, Sam?