Robinhood46 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:42 am
I haven't yet gone to get the bearings, so no update on how they perform, or if they give the desired result.
...
I put in an order for clutch bearings size 32mm diameter by 10mm depth.
The studies I am doing only need modest torque 18.5nm.
Regards
[MP] Mobiles that perpetuate - external energy allowed
agor95 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:49 pm
I put in an order for clutch bearings size 32mm diameter by 10mm depth.
The studies I am doing only need modest torque 18.5nm.
They have arrived. Both 2-way and one-way bearings. Both have the same dimension as above.
They are smooth and quiet. The bearings induce non-conservative forces.
Hopefully with an accelerating device that can be overcome.
P.S. I am into blocking out the dimensions for the engineering drawings. You need the size & weight of the bearings.
Then you can create the model components to take that into account.
All the Best
Last edited by agor95 on Sat Jun 10, 2023 8:55 am, edited 3 times in total.
[MP] Mobiles that perpetuate - external energy allowed
I picked mine up yesterday and i am pleasantly surprised. I thought they weren't going to be as good as they appear to be.
I was expecting a bit of sloppiness in the bearings and the need for a back rotation of a few degrees before the blocking. I was wrong on both counts.
I haven't got a clue how much force they will support but my guess is far more than the method i will be fixing them with, so the problem will most likely be the bearing slipping in it's hole, or on it's bolt, and not the bearing being too cheap and nasty.
So my next objective is to find my forstner bits, which is no easy task, and hope i have one the right size.
I would have thought that they all have a blocking option of some sort, mine have the grooves inside and out for a woodruff key too.
I will be working with a few grammes over a few centimetres, so i don't think i need to worry at this stage.
Good luck.
I have finally got around to buying the right sized drill for the one way bearings.
Here is a short video of the mechanism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9wpufzo7kQ
It is on THX4's Youtube channel because my phone doesn't allow my computer to see it (it thinks it's top secret maybe).
It behaves in the manner i was expecting, pretty much the same as the simulation.
It is more difficult in the real world to play with the positions and lengths of arms, than in the sim world. This is just a stab in the dark, or an educated guess, as to where to put the swivel point and the length of the smaller weights arm. The ratio between the heavy and light weight is not 4;1 more like 5;1 (1.2 kg vs 0.256 kg).
I didn't choose the weight of the lighter weight, i simply played with the light weight to achieve the best result with the swivel in this position and the arm of this length. The arm length and swivel position are not entirely independent because the final position of the light weight is determined by both factors and the goal was to let it interact with the wheel.
I can't get the wheel to go round in circles, but my thoughts do.
This is a try at coordinating the swinging of the lighter weight that doesn't work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_afQnlgR_c
It does create a movement pretty identical to my animations 2 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1KeM8WcWbo (for example). I did post a video which was on Kapwing, if i remember correctly, that resembled it much more but is no longer accessible.
Am i going around in circles because I'm in the right ballpark or because i am in a rut that goes nowhere that i can't get out of?
Last edited by Robinhood46 on Mon Jul 03, 2023 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If your simulations aren’t working, then the real world build won’t either.
If your simulation works, then you have to see what you did wrong for your input.
A simulation of an overbalancing wheel won’t go in an infinite number of circles unless it was told to simulate an impossible machine. IMO.
So I would say you’re in a sim rut.
eccentrically1 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 7:46 pm
A simulation of an overbalancing wheel won’t go in an infinite number of circles unless it was told to simulate an impossible machine. IMO.
If ever we have a runner in the real world, we will be able to answer the question will a simulation show PM or not?
I certainly wouldn't put my hand in a fire, but i am of the opinion that sims will show pm. Bessler's wheel, if it did work, didn't work by magic or a Devine intervention, it worked because everything we know about physics allows it to work, we just haven't put the pieces of the puzzle in the right places.
The way his wheel worked had to follow the laws of physics. There’s no way around that. Simulation softwares are programmed to follow the laws.
What good would it do for anyone trying to simulate a serious machine to program with software that allowed violations?
WM 2d will only show pm if it’s told to violate some part of physics; I recall solid objects passing through each other is one such thing. I’m sure there are others.
So yes, sims can show pm. But they’re not real.
Robinhood46 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 8:08 pm
If ever we have a runner in the real world, we will be able to answer the question will a simulation show PM or not?
Eccentrically1,
I do not know, or pretend to know, if sims will or will not show PM.
I am of the opinion that they will and i can fully understand, and accept, the opinion of someone who thinks they will not. I do not see the need to invent stupid arguments as to why they might be wrong.
Robinhood46 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 8:50 pm
Eccentrically1,
I do not know, or pretend to know, if sims will or will not show PM.
I am of the opinion that they will and i can fully understand, and accept, the opinion of someone who thinks they will not. I do not see the need to invent stupid arguments as to why they might be wrong.
It’s not my opinion. Sims will not show a violation of physics, period.
Maybe you should sleep on it, rh.
Invent away! I am prepared to rebut.
Par expérience j'abonde dans le sens de Robinhood Algodoo est en décalage avec la réalité.
D'un PC à l'autre vous avez un comportement légèrement différent. vous pourriez avoir un coureur réel et Algodoo dirait le contraire et inversement.
D'où l'utilité des vérifications réelles.
J.B
By experience I agree in the sense of Robinhood Algodoo is out of step with reality.
From one PC to another you have a slightly different behavior. you could have a real runner and Algodoo would say the opposite and vice versa.
Hence the usefulness of actual audits.
J.B
