Part Three is the Charm

[mryy]

mryy, mryy, Six weights below the center line and three above, think about it. What will happen-----------Sam

I know ... the six weights should keel I mean kill the wheel. BUT despite being bottom-heavy there is an inherent momentum that keeps the wheel non-static. On the ascending left side none of the levers are touching the rim stops. Theoretically the nested Roberval-like handles of the foregoing levers will generate a small torque in the preferred direction (CW in this case). So the wheel no matter the weight-lever distribution around it will want to turn.

[Tarsier79]

...So the wheel no matter the weight-lever distribution around it will want to turn.

Pushes the red buzzer; "Brrrrrt".

Gravity makes the COM settle to its lowest point.

[mryy]

...So the wheel no matter the weight-lever distribution around it will want to turn.

Pushes the red buzzer; "Brrrrrt".

Gravity makes the COM settle to its lowest point.

Absolutely -- for typical OOB wheels that can never overcome the punctum quietus. But a wheel with a prime mover ... nah.

[mryy]

I modified the double torsion spring and gave it a pointed tip true to its namesake the Dachshund with its pointy snout. This narrow profile should eliminate any chance of the spring rubbing against the side links of the stork's bill quadrilateral (note that the spring passes inside and through the stork's bill.) You Like?

I Like (not suitable for prudes):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecbe6DpJ_SA

[Tarsier79]

Not really. I don't see a prime mover. Your design is not unlike any other OB design and suffers from the same problems.

Your torsion springs will help on one side, but will hinder on the other. Ultimately, they will yield no net positive result.

I have said this before: do simple tests that match your budget and technical ability. Technic Lego is a good start point for quick and simple building. Design => Test => Measure => Learn => Form a new hypothesis => Repeat =>....

[mryy]

Not really. I don't see a prime mover. Your design is not unlike any other OB design and suffers from the same problems.

True. The design would have problems as any other ... without the presence of a prime mover. Tell me T79, why don't you think the nested parallelograms are prime mover material?

Your torsion springs will help on one side, but will hinder on the other. Ultimately, they will yield no net positive result.

Can you elaborate on what happens when the torsion spring operates on both sides of the wheel? I like to glean from your knowledge earned by many past (failed) experiments. :)

I have said this before: do simple tests that match your budget and technical ability. Technic Lego is a good start point for quick and simple building. Design => Test => Measure => Learn => Form a new hypothesis => Repeat =>....

Thank you again for your thoughtful advice. It will be considered at an appropriate time. :)

[Tarsier79]

Tell me T79, why don't you think the nested parallelograms are prime mover material?

Perhaps my definition of a prime mover is different to yours. The prime mover has to induce energy into the mechanism.

Can you elaborate on what happens when the torsion spring operates on both sides of the wheel? I like to glean from your knowledge earned by many past (failed) experiments. :)

I thought I did. If the torsion spring helps push a mechanism into a positive position on one side of the wheel, it will also be negatively affected on the other side.... IE, helps push out into OB on the right, delays the pull in to OB on the left. A spring only gives back what you put into it in the first place.

[WaltzCee]

True. The design would have problems as any other ... without the presence of a prime mover. Tell me T79, why don't you think the nested parallelograms are prime mover material?

Depends on how one wants to characterize prime mover. Does it have the power to move at 300 rpm?

or is it pinned to the wall, wailing like a little girl?

[mryy]

True. The design would have problems as any other ... without the presence of a prime mover. Tell me T79, why don't you think the nested parallelograms are prime mover material?

Depends on how one wants to characterize prime mover. Does it have the power to move at 300 rpm?

or is it pinned to the wall, wailing like a little girl?

Like this maybe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLl4pPhSezU&t=60s

[mryy]

Perhaps my definition of a prime mover is different to yours. The prime mover has to induce energy into the mechanism.

Fair enough. For now I define the prime mover as any mechanism that induces Perpetual Motion. It's a catch-all definition that allows for a wide range of possibilities. I am brainstorming so an umbrella meaning of the prime mover is helpful. The nested parallelograms convert energy on the wheel's ascending side which would have been wasted as back-rotation/backtorque, theoretically speaking. I guess you could say they induce *correct* energy on the ascending side so that the wheel turns continually in the desired direction.

I thought I did. If the torsion spring helps push a mechanism into a positive position on one side of the wheel, it will also be negatively affected on the other side.... IE, helps push out into OB on the right, delays the pull in to OB on the left. A spring only gives back what you put into it in the first place.

I'd imagine there is some delay. A little delay may not be detrimental to the wheel operation however. The delay can be shortened by using weaker springs. As you are aware the purpose of the spring is to set up the lever for an accelerated strike against the rim stop on the descending side.

I still believe that B. used springs in his wheels as he may have implied as such in one of his statements. The question is what type of spring is best suited to the task. Lately I have been considering a spring-like, flexible metal blade seen in fencing epee/foil. B. may have alluded to it in the AP Poem metaphors of the "feather fencers" and the slinking cat (connotating sinuous movement to me); and there's the MT18 drawing showing 4 flexing weight-levers. A simple flexible thin blade is likely easier to construct than a torsion spring -- a plus.

[JUBAT]

Well this is promising. Something like falling weights that use their inertia to impart the winding of a spring which meters it's discharge of energy into the wheel. So it's like a quick wind up, and slow release. I can see that working. In fact, I had an earlier idea that used weights on arms that spun sprockets and using a ratchet mechanism preventing the weights from bouncing or kicking back.

Sounds plausible as long as you have enough spring to drive an imbalanced wheel around. It's like a perpetual yo-yo where the string is being constantly wound while the yo-yo keeps unwinding it.

Still I'm heavily skeptical of even this idea.

[mryy]

I updated the last design this time using a blade spring instead of torsion with a weight at its end. So there are now two types of weights in the wheel, one mounted onto the spring and the other, the lever. I feel these two weights have something to do with the clue about 1 pound falling one quarter and 4 pounds rising four quarters. Clockwise from 6:00 to 9:00 (a quarter of a circle) the spring weight is falling gently via gravity and bending (winding up) the blade. From about 9:00 to 12:00 the blade unwinds and pulls up the lever behind and its yellow weights. Each yellow weight rises a quarter of a circle for a total of four quarters.

I now understand why B. calls the inner wheel a grindstone. What does an actual grindstone do? It sharpens blades.

You like that, you like that?

[mryy]

The AP Poem speaks of the dog creeping out the kennel as far as its chain permits and again through the hoop/ring. Inspired by these lines I shortened the length of the blade spring (dog) of the last wheel design. I removed 3 cross-rods that connect the two sides of the stork's bill unit (kennel/hoop) and kept the cross-rod closest to the axle. See left image legend of the upload. These modifications make it possible for the spring to move in and out of the stork's bill. The cross-rod that remains enables the spring to pull the lever.

So tell me you like?

Select Quotes:
"As long as it fetches from itself.
On one side it is heavy and full,
On the other, empty and light (as it is)." DeepL Translate of the transcribed original, page (87), JCs AP page 235 posted by our beloved Tarsier79 in p.20 of Topic "Thx Machine II"
"The length and width broadens itself, here it is full/complete, there is is empty/blank/barren" Ralf translation of AP Poem

[I now believe the above quotes are referring specifically to the outline/movement of the weight-springs around the wheel. The spring inside the stork's bill represents food passing through the bowels -- empty vs full. And the way the springs bend and dip on the ascending side of the wheel evokes of arms fetching items.]


"Here you see it half/in half/in part, there you see it complete/entire/whole" Ralf translation of AP Poem

[I believe this is referring specifically to the outline/movement of the weight-levers around the wheel.]

[mryy]

Just for fun, I traced the inner links (facing the grindstone) of the stork's bill units all around and ended with an outline of a star. Looks familiar? Hmm ...

[mryy]

Same as last design with some changes to text/image legends.

Select Quote:

"The weights which rest below must, in a flash, be raised upwards. How suddenly the excess weight is caused to rise (as does a weight above the point of application of a lever)."

[B. is referring to the spring weights lifting up suddenly somewhere between 6:00 to 9:00 when their blade springs unwind.]