2 rlortie

[path_finder]

Many thanks Fletcher for the explanation.
So far this design comes from the same basis like this, one of the four most promising I'm experimenting:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=9030

[bluesgtr44]

thanks, I'm glad to know I'm still welcome here. I sure hope I'm wrong. Remember, my suspicion is that he was quite a clever clock maker and that he probably used dozens of these spring loaded cylinders. Perhaps he even perfected them so that he could twist them to recharge the springs? A contraption that caused the wheel to "break" when it actually ran out of energy? Though for many of the lifting demonstrations I'd still favor a theory with more human intervention.

I personally think you left out one of the most important and tangible factors as to whether or not Bessler was a fraud.....Karl! I put this up recently in another thread....

Welcome to the next level of madness, PF. These are some excerpts from Professor Christian Wolff about the wheel. He witnessed the Merseburg wheel...the first bi-directional wheel. This report was prepared for the Czar of Russia, Peter the Great......from AP, pg.114...J. Collins

"...Furthermore there is the testimony of the Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel, who is experienced in evaluating mechanical inventions and had seen the internal mechanism of the wheel and ran it for many weeks in a locked room, keeping the keys himself, having personally locked and sealed the doors and windows with his own seal. He testified both verbally and in an officially printed certificate that the movement of the wheel was caused by nothing more than the weights and this it would run continuously unless the internal structure of the wheel was altered."

And in this same letter, we can see that they were just starting to graze the effects of gravity......

"....But the force which drives the weights, does not come from the machine itself, rather it comes from some fluid, invisible matter by which the movement of the falling weights becomes faster and faster. Orffyreus whole invention consists of an artful arrangement of weights, in such a way that they are lifted when at rest and aquire force during their fall, and in my opinion it is this that he keeps secret. This is also consistent with what Orffyreus says, that anyone could easily understand his invention, as soon as he is allowed to look into the wheel."

What I get from this and other information, especially concerning Karl...is that there wasn't really a whole lot to this. Not that this would be an overall bad thing, but if it really had a chance of providing viable amounts of power/energy...I would think that the zest and zeal of this campaign by Karl would have been done long before. He had the finances to do this himself. His reputation was such that having seen the inside and really been impressed, he could have put together a consortium himself and not have to have put up the whole amount himself......he didn't! This is very telling in so many ways to me........it was that damn simple! He knew it couldn't be contained from the masses.


Steve

The information available on Karl seems to show that he was an honorable and intelligent man. I find it very difficult to believe that he could have been hoodwinked by the likes of Bessler. You may disagree with my synopsis as to why he didn't seem to be as invested in the urgency of promoting the wheel, but to think he would even be a part of deception of this low, low level is something I would have a serious problem with.

Karl is what puts it in the "yeah, he figured out a way" camp for me. But, it also leads me to believe that there were some limitations and considerations to this astonishing discovery that minimalized it's impact in comparison to the Savery-Newcomens of the time. Basically, I simply believe Karl!


Steve

Big apologies, folks! I quoted this as being from AP, it was from PM:AAMS. I owe you all a beer!


Steve

[WaltzCee]

An argue bot with context parameters set to zero :D

[UbWe]

An argue bot with context parameters set to zero :D

Walt, I am going to use this forum as an example of modern day fascism/white supremacy. I'm 100% disabled yet it is okay to harass and
attack me because I'm 1/2 Norwegian. This forum might actually be about discrediting Bessler while acting like it supports his work. And with
orpheus.org, that might become their legacy when Bessler's Wheel is talked about.
After all, when I offered to work with rlortie in 2011, I had the right idea and knew what direction to follow to realize Bessler's Wheel. If you look
at the axle of the grind stone and Kassel - 2nd figure, they have the same axle assembly. And yet you say you are teaching me when attacking
me. Did you attack me in 2009? You didn't. Attacks by "pure" Englishers wouldn't allow me to pursue Bessler's Wheel and at the same time they
refused to work with me. And what you're showing Walt is the same bigotry that got Bessler arrested is the same bigotry that gets me banned.

[JUBAT]

I've told you over and over that your disability and Norwegian heritage has nothing to do with how you're treated. Anyone who behaves even remotely like you is gonna get heckled.

I will admit that it appears you've toned things down a bit, but as long as you keep accusing me of being your lover ab hammer, claiming you might have solved the wheel, and all your other ludicrous claims, you're gonna get heckled.

If you spent just one month looking forward and not looking back and not once brought up an hammer, r lortie, and not once talked about facism, naziism, disabity, cancer, leaving the usa, and not once claimed you had a working wheel and didnt fantasize about being right about tour math....not talking even once about all those past wrongs and focused on just bessler wheel ideas and explaining how you think it could have worked...you would see in that month a newfound level of respect from everyone here. You are the only one who behaves like you do...nobody else acts like this. If you would simply humble yourself and quit thinking how great and mighty and sinless you are, you might actually be a decent person to be around. You can't convince a person to be peaceable when they love to fight.

But you insist on harping on all those same old perceived or real slights and as long as you do that, this will never end. Ovulus obviously likes it and defends it by saying you shouldn't be heckled for it, but other than that...airing out your dirty laundry is gonna get the dirty wash water thrown back in your face.

Since you love quoting scripture...do tell us how you practice forgiveness?

[UbWe]

I've told you over and over that your disability and Norwegian heritage has nothing to do with how you're treated. Anyone who behaves even remotely like you is gonna get heckled.

I will admit that it appears you've toned things down a bit, but as long as you keep accusing me of being your lover ab hammer, claiming you might have solved the wheel, and all your other ludicrous claims, you're gonna get heckled.

If you spent just one month looking forward and not looking back and not once brought up an hammer, r lortie, and not once talked about facism, naziism, disabity, cancer, leaving the usa, and not once claimed you had a working wheel and didnt fantasize about being right about tour math....not talking even once about all those past wrongs and focused on just bessler wheel ideas and explaining how you think it could have worked...you would see in that month a newfound level of respect from everyone here. You are the only one who behaves like you do...nobody else acts like this. If you would simply humble yourself and quit thinking how great and mighty and sinless you are, you might actually be a decent person to be around. You can't convince a person to be peaceable when they love to fight.

But you insist on harping on all those same old perceived or real slights and as long as you do that, this will never end. Ovulus obviously likes it and defends it by saying you shouldn't be heckled for it, but other than that...airing out your dirty laundry is gonna get the dirty wash water thrown back in your face.

Since you love quoting scripture...do tell us how you practice forgiveness?

Jubat, Thank You for your post. And if either of my builds work I think people will believe me. And oyvvus' own post states that he believes
cancer research was wasted on me. And Jubat, you're a completely anonymous person. Why should I trust someone just because they're
abusive towards me? It will be interesting to show that Bessler's Wheel might've been realized over 10 years ago except anonymous people
like you who do not discuss Bessler's work or build need everything your way.
With what you just posted, that parallel's ab hammer's thread calling me the ultimate fraud. I had to understand that I was the problem. You're
merely repeating what he said back in 2011. You show the attitude in here has not changed. I am vilified for pursuing Bessler's Wheel. You need
to consider that the money I've spent and the work I've put into it doesn't matter. After all, who has said Good Luck! Hope You Got It or would love
to see it realized. Just never said but what is said is that I don't discuss Bessler's Wheel when my builds say otherwise.

p.s., I saved this page so it can be compared to what ab hammer said in 2011 of which orpheus.org supported him. This was a chance for people
to say we are sorry about the way we've allowed you to be treated but never happened. And unfortunately I'll ask the DOJ to shut down this website.
I think only myself and thx4 have any work to show and he's not attacked while I am. And as you said, it's because I think I've realized Bessler's Wheel.
And my building means absolutely nothing. I have to ask "is this right?". Basically I'm expected to give my work away by letting other people take credit
for it. I think people will understand that concept. Nikola Tesla is an example of that.

[WaltzCee]

GOOD DAY JAMES,
. .. .. .
or you are truly several levers and a weight short of balanced.

. .. .. .

. .. .. .
Edit: Dude! You seem to have a chip on your shoulder of hither-to unheard of proportions. You really should consider the possibility that you might benefit from some lengthy professional help.

[WaltzCee]

Ralph,
If you are interested in building Bessler's wheel, I can give you the secrets.
It's not worth all the bullshit.
If so, pm me with an e-mail address I can send pics to.

Basically I'm expected to give my work away by letting other people take credit
for it. I think people will understand that concept. Nikola Tesla is an example of that.

We're sorry. Please give us "the secrets".

[JUBAT]

Do you think the DOJ cares about a website like this? Remember all the stuff you've typed is logged on here too so with you pointing the finger, there is going to be a lot of exposure of the things you posted as well. If I were working at the DOJ and I decided to have a look - once I saw the things you posted about, I'd tell my co-workers to ignore you and that you needed medical help.

You didn't answer my question: How do you practice forgiveness beings you cite scripture on a regular basis?

[UbWe]

Do you think the DOJ cares about a website like this? Remember all the stuff you've typed is logged on here too so with you pointing the finger, there is going to be a lot of exposure of the things you posted as well. If I were working at the DOJ and I decided to have a look - once I saw the things you posted about, I'd tell my co-workers to ignore you and that you needed medical help.

You didn't answer my question: How do you practice forgiveness beings you cite scripture on a regular basis?

When did I say I was a Christian? What you need to consider is if I can "invent" sustainable farming. Then again why would I
care to feed ab hammer's family? This could be the unseen cost of white supremacy. "real" Americans are simply better.
2 -20 year long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and now a proxy war in Russia, why? Americans are that good, right?
And for you Jubat, scripture;
Ephesians 4:31-32

Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

And yet you weren't kind. You're a focking loser. Feel better?

p.s., Jubat, Alan Bauldree liked me comparing him to the guy who molested 2 of my brothers. I was banned and he wasn't. People
will wonder why I was banned and not him.

[WaltzCee]

.

When did I say I was a Christian?

I can vouch for James, here. To the contrary, he brags about his pagan ancestry.

.

He comes from a long line of murdering, raping, & plundering pagan hillybillies who are so proud of their DNA, they like to keep it in the family.

[UbWe]

.

When did I say I was a Christian?

I can vouch for James, here. To the contrary, he brags about his pagan ancestry.

.

He comes from a long line of murdering, raping, & plundering pagan hillybillies who are so proud of their DNA, they like to keep it in the family.

Remember when you posted that Alan would be evil if he sodomized me as a kid but today the church would approve of it?
Is this more "conditioning" because you're "grooming" me to not be a jerk towards him? I think it's funny that someone wants
me to be their secret affair like Aaron Hernandez had.

Aaron Hernandez told his mom that he was gay before his jail suicide, reveals brother who questions whether NFL player murdered his friend to keep his sexuality secret https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... other.html

Then that's why I need to quit being a jerk towards Jubat, ab hammer, etc., right? You guys simply do not discuss Bessler's work but want me to be
personally pleasing to someone who demands I like them when that has nothing to do with Bessler's work. That's the alternative 100% anonymous WaltzCee which is not a real name and the one you provided is probably a fake name as well. I find it strange waltcee that you'd bring sexual molestation into this forum. And now you bring incest into it. And yet what you discuss has nothing to do with Bessler's work but you are welcome here.
I think people will find that strange.

[JUBAT]

I find it odd then that there is citing of scripture when there is an admission of paganism. It's like a communist citing the constitution.

[UbWe]

I find it odd then that there is citing of scripture when there is an admission of paganism. It's like a communist citing the constitution.

Jubat, Why is it that the people in here who only have personal attacks are never banned? It's like when Alan Bauldree posted that I had to be
personally pleasing to him, why is that is what this forum is about? People will find it strange that I get banned for pursuing Bessler's Wheel
because I'm a jerk towards ab hammer and you. And as you said, if I act like a jerk I will get jerk back. How is my trying to discuss my work my
being a jerk to you? And when you have nothing to do with my work, why does your opinion of me be what everything is about in here?
Let's face it, you and your friends simply have no work to show and yet you guys are what this forum is about. I think most people will realize
how that sounds. Guys cruising a forum for the want of another man's attention. It's an easy choice to make. You guys are either white supremacists
or your gay and I'm turning you on by building and your attacks on me is you guys venting. Your sexually frustrated because I'm not responding the
way you guys would like. And as I posted, with what Aaron Hernandez went through, this might be more of that.

[JUBAT]

I think your builds are quite amazing actually. You do some really good carpentry and as soon as you quit bringing up AB Hammer, Naziism, Fascism, and your Norweigian hertiage, sex stuff, and all your past hurts, I will be heavily inclined to throttle back and engage in proper discussion with you. As long as you keep it up, so will I. You change how you come across and actively work at not being an ass with yourself, I will follow suit. Doesn't change my views that I don't think anyone is going to solve the wheel in my lifetime, but that's my opinion and not directed at you.

I think we're making progress here. I'm sure ovulus is really happy about this. He likes your grudges.