[ Ferocious Rate ]

[agor95]

How can the wheel rotate so fast?

These images have been around for some time.

Has any members given this some thought? And are you willing to share your ideas?

Bessler Wheel Dimensions


Bessler Wheel Speeds


Regards

[bruno]

Se non ricordo male Collins intervistato dalla televisione di stato Italiana parla di una elevata velocità nella prima ruota; il video è su YT.
Saluti da Bruno

[agor95]

Imágenes de las fuerzas de una masa de 4 kg dando vueltas en la primera rueda.

Imaging the forces of a 4kg mass going around in the first wheel.

Eso es cerca de 13.2k / h con cerca de 26 julios de energía cinética.

That is near 13.2k/h with near 26 joules of Kinentic Energy.

[agor95]

That is near 13.2k/h with near 26 joules of Kinentic Energy.

If you imagine the 4kg mass is at 0.7m at the 3oc [O'Clock] position travelling down at 13.2k/h.
Then it should be travelling at 13.5 k/h when it reaches ground.

That is equivalent to a rotation rate about 51 rpm.

However that would be to simple.

The force too accelerate reduces as it arcs.

[Tarsier79]

The problem is we don't know the weight, its distribution, or the operating principle. We don't know how relative a "gentle push" is on a 12 foot wheel , and what mechanism and efficiency it would take to accelerate said wheel to over 20rpm in a "few" turns.

[agor95]

The problem is we don't know the weight, its distribution, or the operating principle. We don't know how relative a "gentle push" is on a 12 foot wheel , and what mechanism and efficiency it would take to accelerate said wheel to over 20rpm in a "few" turns.

You are correct on all you say. I for one am not going to try and rebuild Besslers Wheel to his original design and implementation.

So we do not know. That does not stop use from knowing what we know in the 21st century for Bessler did not know that either.

So what do we know about the bottom right [south east quadrant]?

[Tarsier79]

Nothing. The only thing we know is weights were lifted as stated by B. We don't know in what quadrant, but we assume it is at 6 up to 12. (It has been shown that we can shift the lift to any position ie3:00 and it will produce the same results.) We do not know how the lift occurred, but we do know how it didn't.

[agor95]

I am asking those that are interested the question what do we know about the S.E. quadrant. That is the people that are living now who are able to answer.

Well read members and guests should be well versed in Bessler historic clues.
I do not think he is going too answer any more questions.

[agor95]

Hypothetically

If we, the living, were to place a 4 kg mass at 3 oc at a speed down of 13.5 kg/h.
Then would its speed increase again in this vacuum environment?

Would acceleration due to gravity adds to it's speed; What ever the initial speed?
Naturally resistance will increase to counter act this effect.

[Tarsier79]

The theoretical maximum speed of the wheel due to a weight falling in gravity is much faster than gravity itself, if that is what you are alluding to....As Dax said, you can use gearring, or a simplified version...eg. The weight falls at just under terminal velocity at a radius of 1 foot in a 12 foot wheel.

[agor95]

definition 'To make an indirect reference'

I am asking members and guest to have a go at answering a direct question.

[JUBAT]

This is certainly a question worth considering. Wheels that rotate that fast have to have some kind of immunity to CG or at least a resistance to it. To me, it seems that the weights would have to be able to take a path similar to MT18 (keeping in mind Bessler's comment about a surrepitious shove causing it to grind to a halt) where the speed of the weights in relation to the speed of the wheel was variable OR...

The weights were kept on the periphery or at some fixed distance from the center of rotation and then shuttled around the circumference in some clever way OR...

Large weights close to the center of rotation moving slightly.

I base these presumptions of several factors, the last one being playing on merry-go-rounds in the parks as a kid. If you sat close to the center, you hardly noticed any force trying to throw you off, but camp out on the edge and the force becomes pronounced with very little rotational speed.

Sliding weights around the circumference seems almost like a magic bullet solution, but it's really awkward and you don't really get good solid acceleration out of it like Bessler's wheels achieved. Wasn't it like within 3 rotations it was at max speed?

Back to my first point, my potential solution involves MT18 with the springs or in this modern age...fiberglass rods aka fishing poles...with a weight suspended on each end. Pit that against a counter-weight to effect rotation. I have no idea if it would work and will attempt to diagram later. With spring loaded weights, you have to keep in mind any counter-rotative effects, but going back to the merry-go-round - try this for an experiment:

Get someone to spin you slowly or just give yourself a little push on a merry-go-round. Try throwing a shot-put in the direction of rotation. As soon as you launch, your rotational speed drops drastically and you might even stop. If you were to have several people and they each slowly launched a softball forwards, although there would be some kickback, it would be negligible and if the throw was gradual and not a snap-like all of a sudden move, it would have the effect of launching the softballs forward and faster than your current speed.

In a wheel then, that gradual forward movement could culminate in gravity always having the effect of pulling harder on one side of the wheel than the other. MT18 is the basis for an "organic" wheel with sloppy weights. Instead of 4 spring-loaded weights, I was thinking more along the lines of 2 spring-loaded weights like MT18 and then directly across from each of these weights is a heavy counter weight near the axle. The idea being that the heavy counterweight tries to settle and as it does, it pulls the weight of the fishing rod in towards the center and up. Once that fishing rod weight pops up to the top, it rests on a rim-stop. Since it's now up and on a rim stop, it has enough weight to now fall and lever the counterweight back up to the top. Once the counterweight is above the fishing pole weight, the fishing pole weight starts to lag and recede and be drawn closer to the center and up while the heavy counterweight starts to fall again.

The idea being a kind of weight-driven jacob's ladder of flip-flop movements. One side of the wheel is comprised of weights on fishing poles and the other side comprised of counterweights. You might think it possible that there would be a certain balance point where the heavy counterweight hangs on one side of the axle and the fishing pole weight hangs on the other. But by having 4 or 8 weights, there would just always have to be one weight on a rim stop to move its own counterweight and if the other 2 weights were in balance, they wouldn't imbalance the wheel improperly so one lone weight at the edge of the wheel could possibly make everything move.

So that's my thoughts on how maybe this ferocious juxtapositioning of weights could have caused these rotational speeds while trying to keep CF in check.

[daxwc]

Jubat: The idea being a kind of weight-driven jacob's ladder of flip-flop movements. One side of the wheel is comprised of weights on fishing poles and the other side comprised of counterweights. You might think it possible that there would be a certain balance point where the heavy counterweight hangs on one side of the axle and the fishing pole weight hangs on the other. But by having 4 or 8 weights, there would just always have to be one weight on a rim stop to move its own counterweight and if the other 2 weights were in balance, they wouldn't imbalance the wheel improperly so one lone weight at the edge of the wheel could possibly make everything move.

Interesting train of thought.

[agor95]

I base these presumptions of several factors, the last one being playing on merry-go-rounds in the parks as a kid. If you sat close to the center, you hardly noticed any force trying to throw you off, but camp out on the edge and the force becomes pronounced with very little rotational speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL2Chc6 ... ing around

[agor95]

The two direct questions in a way are a test.

It would be nice to get two direct answers from someone.
Even a guest who registers and has a go at posting an answer.

However it's looking like water of a ducts back at the moment.

Building a dialogue of questioning, reasoning and then a common understanding.