Zeroing in on Bessler's wheel

[JUBAT]

I'd love to see it happen before I kick it. Matters none to me who invents it...Im way passed thinking it will be me. Youthful ambition etc. Id love to see it and I would sign NDAs and the whole shebang. I'm too lazy to even copy it for myself. Just so I could be free of thinking about it would be enough.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Yes JUBAT,
Here here; I too, long to be rid of it!!-----------------------------Sam

[Robinhood46]

We are all counting on you Sam.
Trevor will do it in a few days, but we haven't got a clue when we should start counting.
Spinner hasn't even decided how many steps there are, or in what order they should be done.
If Jon does it, it will be hidden behind a piece of cardboard, so we will be none the wiser.
It's down to you Sam, the whole world is counting on you saving the planet before it boils and we all die.
But don't be stressed about it, it isn't important.
It is really, i was just saying that to make you feel better.
Joking aside, keep at it, one of us will get there one day.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi Robinhood46,
Oh no! I've really got my neck stuck out now. I'll be lucky if my head doesn't get chopped off! What a struggle this thing is. A lot of mechanical issues to resolve, not to mention all of the impossible ones.

Thanks for the pep talk, Robinhood46--------------------Sam

[Sam Peppiatt]

Status update,
Added two feet to each end of the cross bar, to accommodate the new toggle links, and all of the other changes that had to be done. the OD now is 76". Also, I added a 32" diameter ring for static balancing, if needed. All rollers running hot straight and normal, which is pretty hard to believe. And, for once the static balance is really good.

Just have to make the toggle links. The displacement,(of the weights), will be about 5"-------------------Sam

[Tarsier79]

Looking forward to seeing your build Sam.

The good thing about building is you get to cycle your machine and understand it intimately.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi Tarsier79, how are you?
It looks good if that means anything. I agree with you 100%. The hands on aspect, if you will, is hard to describe the importance of it. The hands are the cutting edge of the brain, or some such stuff as that; a feeling for what it likes or don't like by turning it slowly.

What can I add? I will be lucky as sh*t Tarsier, if it were to actually work. And, I can get pictures, if it does------Sam

[Tarsier79]

Hi Sam. I am just getting over another installment of Covid, but I'm good. I am currently doing a test setup I know won't work, but in building it, I hope to get a better feel for it. Fingers crossed it might show something unexpected, but I'm not about to hold my breath. In fact I would be highly surprised if it did.

I unsuccessfully tried searching for one of my builds that used a heavy roller in the centre. It was a 3D printed ring, with a large marble rolling at the bottom. As the wheel turned, the marble rolled over a lever that lifted weights into OB. I am quite confident your build might have very similar issues to what mine did. I recommend building with just one crossbar to see how the roller and the associated weight(s) interact. It was designed as the mechanical equivalent of a liquid filled drum squashing bellows around the perimeter with hydro-static pressure to move weights.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Tarsier,
The covid is bad, really bad, sorry to here that. I think it's mostly gone over here. Thank God! Right, one cross bar is about the only smart thing I've ever done. It has shaved off years of work. The drum / roller can't be in the center of the wheel. They, the drums, have to be away from the center. In this case one at 3, the other at 9, (for one cross bar). One counter balances the other.

Anyway, I see what you were doing. It's very close to what I'm doing. How big was the roller and the ring? And, just two weights I guess, no maybe more. Yes, one thing can lead to another, it's the best chance to find a way. I expect more problems too. This wheel is smart. It knows, once it's set in motion it will have to run forever. It will resist all attempts to do that-------------------Sam

[johannesbender]

On the topic of Rollers , Raj and George and PathFinder had many designs with them , and i remember someone else had a design that used a heavy roller in the center that was supposed to roll over fingers that activated things farther out , up to the present i personally don't see much in rollers but that's me , we do know however that maby Bessler used cylindrical weights and as discussed before that may or may not be a significant clue to design.

[Sam Peppiatt]

johannesbender,
Yes, you are quite right. Also Robinhood46. The thing I remember was the roller was a hexagonal shape. I think all of them had the drum in the center of the wheel, which I started off with too. However, the drum can't be in the center.

Having the drum or drums, and rollers out board, makes all the difference in the world,(see Fletcher Simulation). They now become, the long sought after prime mover, needed to shift the driving weights-----------------Sam

ETA, The heavy rollers are constantly lifted up, then they fall,(roll), back down. It produces a lot of kinetic energy.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Follow up, it's a whole different concept.

Example; Fletcher Simulation. If each roller weighs 100 lbs. and the rings were one foot bigger in diameter, it would generate 300 foot lbs. of kinetic energy per revolution. At 60 RPM, this equals 18,000 foot lbs. divided by 33,000 equals about1/2 HP----------------------Sam

[Sam Peppiatt]

I wonder,
Would the rollers generate electricity if they were hooked to a generator, then turn the drum with some thing, I mean the wheel, turn the wheel--------------------Sam

[johannesbender]

johannesbender,
Yes, you are quite right. Also Robinhood46. The thing I remember was the roller was a hexagonal shape. I think all of them had the drum in the center of the wheel, which I started off with too. However, the drum can't be in the center.

Having the drum or drums, and rollers out board, makes all the difference in the world,(see Fletcher Simulation). They now become, the long sought after prime mover, needed to shift the driving weights-----------------Sam

ETA, The heavy rollers are constantly lifted up, then they fall,(roll), back down. It produces a lot of kinetic energy.

Sam with all respect , I don't really agree because i haven't seen it though , but IMO in the sim you refer to (but excluding the straights) , and going off my imagination (who knows how far off i am from the truth), if the rollers were to trace a path as they go around the axle , they would (i think) trace a circular path , which means for every amount of height lost by one roller another roller increases by the same height at the same time , which means they balance and cant provide KE to something else without stopping , they cant drive if they are balanced , so to produce torque you added extra weights coupled to them , if the rollers balance then the rollers cant move the extra weights , and if the extra weights cant be moved in and out by the rollers nor by themselves then there cant be constant KE replenishing.

Of course i am going on imagination and really don't know for sure what you have build , and i sure as hell don't have any "runner" , you have the real build in front of you and would know what you actually mean , im sure you would let us know the results when your done , good luck.

[Sam Peppiatt]

jb,
I must be wrong. It does seam a little far fetched, I'll find out more soon---------------------Sam