Zeroing in on Bessler's wheel

[WaltzCee]

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• Illustration from 1908 Chambers's Twentieth Century Dictionary. Bell-crank, n. a rectangular lever in the form of a crank, used for changing the direction of bell-wires.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ch ... _Crank.png


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Bell-crank (n.) Orthoganal force transmission contraption/device thingie.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Waltcy,
This was probably used in a big house / mansion before electricity------------------Sam

[WaltzCee]

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I hate to quote myself,

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I started paying attention to your thread when you were talking about the binary star model, Sam.

I think the math

• E(total)=E(translational) + E(rotational)

is exploitable because

• E(gradient) = E(translational) + or - E(translational) + E(rotational)

No creation necessary! That's above my pay grade anyway.

ETA

EEEEEEEEEEEEventualy---------------------------Sam

don't pull your hair out, Sam. There is an obvious gradient. You need a simple transmission, adding the energies, then taking the gradient out of the middle.

ETA sometime before Christmas?

I had more to say about this

• I think the math
  
  • E (tot)= E(trans) + E(rot)
  is exploitable because
  
  • E(gradient) = E (trans) + or - E (trans) +
    E (rot)

The point

• E(gradient) < E(tot)

should be axiomatic. At least in the beginning.

Can the gradient ever exceed it's cause?

• Can God make a rock bigger than he can pick up?

Good question.

yet it appears we've circled back to a past/previous idea. Time travel @ it's finest.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Right Waltcy, time travel, who said it can't be done. You think of every thing-------------------Sam

Note: I'm sawing out bell-cranks, a lot of work.

[agor95]

Hello Sam

That is better I can visualise such a device. I used them in linkages in remote control planes.

You can use a 90 degree version or others with different angles.
When you do you end up with different input output movements etc.

In the 21st century this is known as orthogonal and non-orthogonal force vectors.

I like your concept of counter acting the force vector of gravity as it changes direction.
So the action force is available along the local tangent of a rotational path.

I suppose the question waiting to be asked; What are the details on the location of the pivot point?

Here is a concept to think on; We have up in a flash globally which is normal up.
Then there is up in a flash locally which is up in relation to the rotating frame.
So if the frame is going clockwise the up in more clockwise along the tangential direction.

So you could have an 'up in a flash locally' but down globally.

[WaltzCee]

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Maybe Santa will bring you a laser cutter this year

The bell crank might be seen as a phase shifter, advancing it 90° or retarding it. Why not a 120° bell-crank, Sam?

I think the principle embodied in the bell-crank is cool & a good tool, yet not the answer to the larger puzzle.

ETA
oh, it looks like the commandant of the pointie headed brigade has slithered back.

[WaltzCee]

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here I go, plagiarizing myself again
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• The bell crank might be seen as a phase shifter, advancing it 90° or retarding it. Why not a 120° bell-crank, Sam?

Why not a bell-crank with a hysteresis curve embodied in it? What took you 9 months to figure out, Sam? You could have had a baby by now!

[Sam Peppiatt]

Sawing, sawing, and sawing. I rest.
Yes Waltcy, a Lasor cutter for Xmas! I could sure use one today. Why 90 degrees? The force or forces need to be directed along a tangent which is 90 degrees to the radius. So, I think 90 should be right.

Yea, why 9 months, why so long? It's like the brain can't make big leaps, only tiny little steps. Also, I 'm thinking here I go again with another screw ball idea, with no drawings to help explain it-------------Sam

ETA,
The longer part of the bell-crank stays parallel with the ground. To do that: it has to rotate CCW when the wheel turns CW.

[agor95]

It's like the brain can't make big leaps, only tiny little steps.

9 months is nothing; You are right as you develop an idea your brain needs time to 'rewire'.
Each time you return after a break the analysis become more doable.

Now I find studying something different but potentially helpful in the future is a 'win win'.

Developing an understanding of Projective Geometric Algebra to create dynamic demos is a big leap.
Put studying javascript [ECMAscript] is a break from that. I had no idea how much this language has evolved.
Now I need a break from that study!

Where are my crayons?

[Sam Peppiatt]

Argo,
Mostly I don't understand your reasoning, if you forgive me for saying so. But you are right, the pivot point is important. Which, would be at the center of the drum. The roller is 8 inches in diameter and the drum is 11 inches, for a difference of 3 inches. This means the axle of the roller is always 1 1/2 inches from the pivot point, and always below it.

The short vertical part of the bell-crank connects to these two points to roll / pry the roller foreword-------------------Sam

[agor95]

The short vertical part of the bell-crank connects to these two points to roll / pry the roller foreword.

That a reasonable design it reminds me of one of the VProjects demonstrations.

In your case the roller in pushed up the inside of the drum.
The drum has higher MOI than the roller put the roller rotates faster than the rotation rate of the drum.
Naturally the roller diameter in smaller than the drum's diameter.

When the roller overshoots the equilibrium level it falls back as well as reverses it's rotation.
Now if the roller was lifted up on the way down. I am thinking of a ramp.
When it rolls forward again it could be arranged to have the correct rotation.
So when it makes contact with the drum it does not take away the drum's rotation.

Now the only thing to do is find a way to prevent the natural oscillation from reducing.

[Sam Peppiatt]

The roller actually turns slower than the wheel / drum, I don't know why--------------------Sam

Maybe some one could explain it to me.

[WaltzCee]

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::: I see his crayon, it's up his ... , wait, that's not a Crayola! That's his pointed little head!! :::

[agor95]

Maybe some one could explain it to me.

I would imagine the roller is slipping as it interacts with the drum.

[Sam Peppiatt]

I don't think they can slip. The amount they turn is always equal to the ratio of there diameters. 8 divided by 11 equals .727, .727 turns for one turn of the wheel----------------------Sam