The concrete arguments that Bessler was a fraud

[Tarsier79]

The diameter of the wheel is about twelve feet, and as well, the bearing was quite thin, about one quarter of an inch and only a sixth of its length was subject to friction. PM 70 Christian Wolff letter to Leibniz

Agreed. If we accept that Besslers wheel is a fraud, and that it couldn't have been powered internally, The Power would have had to have been transferred through the bearings.

So what are our options:
1. Karl was in on the fraud.
2. There was enough power internally to run for approx 1.5 days without load. Bessler would have to sneak into the room to reset the power each night.
3. Power was transferred via the bearing, driven by another viable power source.
4. Perpetual Motion is possible.

Am I missing something?

[eccentrically1]

4 isn't in this argument.

5. Power was transferred thermally through the cloth.

1/4 " bearing is quite thin for a 12' wheel. I don't think it weighed even 100 kg.

It looked like they might have been less than a foot long so < 2 " subject to friction in the journals.

[daxwc]

The bearing in use wasn’t like we assume. They had no race, no independent rolling; they were just a sleave.

The Difference between Plain, Ball and Roller Bearings (upffront.com)
https://info.upffront.com/en-gb/blog/th ... r-bearings

There seems to be different bearing assemblies depending on wheel and demonstration.

Here is all the quotes of bearings:
1) January 1714 - Gottfried Teuber letter to Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz (Draschwitz):
“I have some very important news for you. A man of the medical profession, called Orffyreus, has constructed an alleged perpetual motion machine in the nearby village of Draschwitz, to which he recently moved. It is a hollow wheel of wood, ten feet in diameter, and six inches thick. It is covered by thin wooden planks in order to hide the internal mechanism. The axle is also wooden, and extends one foot beyond the wheel. It has three teeth which are for moving three wooden stamps similar to those used in pounding mills. The stamps are quite heavy and are lifted and dropped continuously. The iron journals move in open bearings so as to show that neither deception nor an external energy supply are necessary to the machine’s motion.

2) The diameter of the wheel is about twelve feet, and as well, the bearing was quite thin, about one quarter of an inch and only a sixth of its length was subject to friction.� - PM 70 Christian Wolff letter to Leibniz

3) “He intends to show by the motion's effect and duration that his wheel achieves perpetual motion, and he offers to let the wheel run in the presence of officials and persons experienced in mathematics and mechanics for 8 days, excluding Sunday (See LeipzigerZeitungen', number 4, 36th week of 1715).�

“Finally, Herr Orffyreus is officially requested to fulfill his promise made in the general Leipziger Zeitung and let his 6-ell wheel run continuously for 8 days in the presence of persons mentioned above. It is not necessary that he situate it in an open field; rather, the run can suitably take place at the location where the wheel now stands; he can free himself from all suspicions of external pulling or driving if he, as he himself has offered, screws out the journals and allows the journal bearings and posts to be inspected closely. Perhaps the whole experiment would end after the lapse of 24 hours.�

4) I examined the bearings of this wheel to see if there was any hidden artifice; but was unable to see anything more than the two small bearings on which the wheel is suspended at its centre.

5) Through the centre of this wheel or drum runs an axle of about six inches diameter, terminated at both ends by iron bearings of about three-quarters of an inch diameter upon which the whole thing turns. I have examined these bearings, and am firmly persuaded that nothing from without the wheel in the least contributes to its motion.

6) Any attempt at fraud from outside was impossible because the wheel bearings were uncovered on both
sides and one could see the axle journals turning in their bearings. The wheel was moved from its stand and put on another one.

7) 12 Rhenish feet in diameter, and 15 or 18 inches wide. The axle, which passes through the centre of the wheel, is 6 feet long and 8 inches in diameter, and in its movement is supported at each end by an almost one-inch thick steel bearing. The bearings taper somewhat, and the arrangement has been designed in such a way that the rotational movement of the entire vertically suspended wheel can be slightly modified by the application on each side of small weights, as the appended plans at the end of the treatise clearly demonstrate.

8) What they were able to see was a 5-foot diameter wheel, mounted in a light framework which could be easily moved back and forth, fixed in free 231 trunnion bearings, rotating day and night for weeks on end.

9) All of us (page 123) present were then invited to examine minutely the original bearings, and found nothing whatever to justify talk of secret mechanisms. Indeed, it was obvious to us that the motive principle was hidden inside the Wheel itself.

10) the inventor then had the machine replaced on its original bearings, and, as before, with the slightest of touches, the wheel was set revolving once more, soon regaining its original quite considerable velocity

11) He also permitted examination of the iron trunnions on the axle which rested in the bearings during normal running, and the result of all these examinations was that not the slightest sign of any chicanery was to be seen – and that includes the absence of any holes in either bearings or cladding – in short, everything was found to be in perfect and, indeed, blameless order.

12) unasked, after removing the Wheel from its original framework, placed it in another one some distance from the original, and there, with the new bearings OPEN AT THE TOP, he caused the device to revolve, just as before, in either direction, at will, as often as the impressive (and impressed!) gathering requested

13) , you would have clearly seen that the run, before translocation, was longer than you've described it, and that, after it had been put on new bearings, it ran almost until midnight.

14) we had the device removed and placed on different bearings.

15) The empty wheel was so heavy that it could hardly be lifted to its new bearings.

16) The first argument that if the motive principle is contained inside the wheel and go round simultaneously with the wheel and thus there is no fixed point, then the motive principle must have a perpetual motion - is utterly false. To show this all the more clearly, I have constructed the same wheel here. It measures 4 ells in diameter and 7 inches in thickness and is situated between two thin boards in such a way that the journal bearings can be attached to the outer side of these boards, the machine can be raised out of its journal bearings and placed on other pieces of wood and, consequently, the machine can be brought to other places and set up, if the doorways are large enough. Hence it follows irrefutably that the motive principle is contained in the wheel itself, and because the axle and journals rotate with it at the same time, this wheel would also have to be, if these requisites were sufficient, a perpetual motion machine, which it is not, however.

17) Finally, Herr Orffyreus is officially requested to fulfill his promise made in the general Leipziger Zeitung and let his 6-ell wheel run continuously for 8 days in the presence of persons mentioned above. It is not necessary that he situate it in an open field; rather, the run can suitably take place at the location where the wheel now stands; he can free himself from all suspicions of external pulling or driving if he, as he himself has offered, screws out the journals and allows the journal bearings and posts to be inspected closely

[John Collins]

Just pointing out that all of these quotes and nearly every one, come from my publications and I’d be pleased if people would acknowledge my work when they quote from my books.

I know it’s not intentional.

Thanks guys,

JC

[daxwc]

Yes sorry JC. I just assumed everybody knows it is from your work, but actually I took them from Rocky's clues which was already made public. I forgot we were not in Community Buzz. I will let you freely steal any of my ideas going forward.

[daxwc]

From John Collin's AP if you want better context buy his book:

in order to ascertain that there was no question of any driving mechanism being hidden in the supporting posts, we had the device removed and placed on different bearings

So this was about and right after the first test. They actually could have pulled the bearings off the ends of the axle? No wonder they are so adamant that the wheel couldn't be turned through the bearings.

[JUBAT]

Yes sorry JC. I just assumed everybody knows it is from your work, but actually I took them from Rocky's clues which was already made public. I forgot we were not in Community Buzz. I will let you freely steal any of my ideas going forward.

Simple...just put the link to Rocky's clues in your .sig line and you'll be giving John credit in every post.

[John Collins]

Thanks guys. It’s not an issue for me but it is nice to get an acknowledgement from time to time.

JC

[eccentrically1]

No wonder they are so adamant that the wheel couldn't be turned through the bearings.

Yes, they certainly removed all suspicion from anything driving the wheel via the bearings. I can't argue with that.

The best magic gets you look at something else besides the trick.

[daxwc]

Ecc1: The best magic gets you look at something else besides the trick.

Agreed; unless it is number 4.

Well the long test took place in the dead of winter meaning they would be heating the castle. I went back and there is lots of evidence it ran in the summer too. It doesn’t seem heated related like the spit he observed in the fireplace.

As an emphatic proof of its capabilities this device, though really little more than a model, has, to our not inconsiderable pleasure, already passed the long-demanded (page 31) month-long test, and, what is more, has in effect passed it twice. For, after said Wheel had been continuously, closely and many times observed for three whole months by many persons, both local and from further afield, and of both high and low estate, I caused it, on 12th November last year (1717) to be locked away in a sealed room

The 36th week of the year 1715 would correspond to early September. So, the reference you provided from "Leipziger Zeitungen," number 4, 36th week of 1715, would be from early 4 September 1715.
1715 Jun Exhibited third wheel at home in Merseburg, bi-directional push-starting, 11 ft x 11 inches, rotates at 46 rpm.
1715 Jun. Leipzig Post Zeitungen, published for week of 24th - 30th described Merseburg wheel. PM 59
1715 Oct. Acta Eruditorum Leipsic magazine article by Johann Mencke described Merseburg wheel. PM 87
Merseberg wheel was examined by a committee of 12 distinguished investigators.

Precedent for all which shall be, that said much-discussed machine was, as early as 6th June of this present year 1712, set into perfect motion, for all curious eyes (page 111) to behold, by the said Orffyreus, for the first time, in Herr Richter’s house (and in a footnote at bottom of page “where now a church has been built”) on the Nicklausberg

Dr Orffyreus, at present resident in Merseburg, an investigation was arranged for 31st October to put to the test his now completed P.M. machine, which stands in the Green Court before the Sistine Gate

Doesn't seem to be heated related or air related.

[Tarsier79]

5. Power was transferred thermally through the cloth.

I like the idea. A heat engine. I didn't see the fireplace in any of his drawings. There is the water drain though... The thought also coincides with his mention of the fireplace heat powered turn-spit that inspired his search for PM.

We have seen how weak a Stirling engine is, and how much heat is required to run it.

He could have transferred heat through the iron rods and bearings. he could also use a heat sink in the water to maintain the heat differential.

The diagram also shows a false floor or a cavity underneath, which he has run pipes through.

Disregarding what CGPT says regarding the air resistance, could we transfer enough heat into one side of the wheel, while keeping the other side cool to maintain power at 26rpm?

[eccentrically1]

Disregarding what CGPT says regarding the air resistance, could we transfer enough heat into one side of the wheel, while keeping the other side cool to maintain power at 26rpm?

I think so. I’m also wondering if the cool side was maintained by the same method using the cool night air or any dungeon like cavities under the castle during the day. The mechanisms might have been similar to Bill’s engine - Bellows expanding and contracting.

[daxwc]

It seems to be generating too much power for that.

Is there a mercury vacuum heat sink that can be made?

[daxwc]

T79: I like the idea. A heat engine. I didn't see the fireplace in any of his drawings.

JC’s AP: In line 6 of section 13 of Part 1 I report on a matter that did not go as I'd intended. (...the vision of a roasting spit would not leave my mind...) But I kept on searching, and eventually found something better, which did not need winding up, and until someone can come up with something better...

XIII.
Eventually I came to Prague, and began as early as my first night
there to think of the Primum Mobile. For the vision of the
roasting-spit would not leave my mind. I thought it might be
possible, on mechanical principles, to devise a better machine,
and shut myself up to study the matter.

So there were roasting spits in that era that rotated due to vanes in the chimney that turned the spit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roasting_jack

Bessler was well aware how they worked. What medium could he have used?

[eccentrically1]

Yes, solar chimneys have been used for heating and cooling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_chimney

I think there would be enough power to turn the wheel if it wasn’t attached to anything used in the demonstrations.
It was already criticized for being weak, so it would have needed a lot less power to turn just its own mass.
6 lbs or so was the demonstrated lift ( 18X mechanical advantage).
A ballpark estimate just to turn itself might be a few ounces ( just guessing, don’t worry).
Remember once it gets started, it only needs enough power to overcome drag and a tiny bit of axle friction.