Zeroing in on Bessler's wheel

[Sam Peppiatt]

Waltcy,
I have a question for you and, all of you scientific types, jb, ecc1, etc. If the rollers were turned with an electric motor, would there be a gain in energy? The torque would be continues.

Keep in mind that the drums & rollers are out on the rim of the wheel and that the rollers turn slower than the wheel by an amount, equal to the ratio of there diameters. The rollers can be very heavy.

Also, how fast would it rotate / how much power would it have-----------------------Sam

[johannesbender]

No , there would not be a gain , because in your question the motor torque would be responsable for the motion of the rollers and wheel and so also the energy , and even then there will be less out than in due to losses.

If the wheel must be driven by anything else even just a little now and then , like giving a little push with your hand every turn or so , then your hand is providing the energy the wheel is missing and cannot count as a gain , its actually a loss .

[Sam Peppiatt]

jb,
There would be an increase in speed, the question is; what would the torque be. I guess I don't know----Sam

[WaltzCee]

Waltcy,
I have a question for you and, all of you scientific types, jb, ecc1, etc. If the rollers were turned with an electric motor, would there be a gain in energy? The torque would be continues.

I don't really appreciate being lumped in with those sorts of people, Sam. The record here at BW is clear though, I SIM'ed a model that clearly accelerated & consistent with the scientific method published exacting measurements for all those skilled in the art of PM to examine.

Keep in mind that the drums & rollers are out on the rim of the wheel and that the rollers turn slower than the wheel by an amount, equal to the ratio of there diameters. The rollers can be very heavy.

Also, how fast would it rotate / how much power would it have-----------------------Sam

A cost of storing RKE in those rollers is latency. They will always lag behind their cause. It should be mechanically possible to have each addition of RKE added to some amount of existing RKE, causing it to accumulate.

Rachet it? You've been there though.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi Waltcy,
I thought I did separated you from others. Anyway, it was probably an unfair question to ask------------Sam

ETA
Seams like very high speeds could be attained, with the constant pressher of gravity providing the torque.

[WaltzCee]

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Seems like a fair question.
.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Big changes,
The bell-cranks do move the rollers but, are causing back torque when they swing in and out; they are outboard of the drums. I will move them into the center, with the drums farther out. This will increase the forward torque of the rollers and, at the same time reduce the back torque of the bell-cranks.

Maybe I'll get it right yet---------------------Sam

[Gill Simo]

Having never followed this thread & now unlikely to wade through the soon to be 100 pages of it, may I ask...
Has anything at all been learnt/deduced/realised/discovered/advanced etc, in terms of the `know soon enough`statement of some 27mths back?
Not a dig but a genuine question..'cos I'm not wishing to waste my time on something that's clearly suggesting waste of time by now.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Gill Simo,
FWEIW, this is the way it's shaping up. The ring & Rollers, like it or not, are the secret to Bessler's wheel. For the following reasons. You don't have to lift them, or drop them. They are quite heavy / excess weight, (a thread you started, right?). All you have to do is keep them rolling foreword, and the wheel will be constantly OOB.

Right now I'm working with bell-cranks. However, there is still some question as to the best way to do that, which I'm trying to figure out. It's not a done deal but, if you can find a better way; have at it------------------Sam

[WaltzCee]

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Hey Jubat,

One of the ideas I have is what I've thought of as LSAM 1.0 © 2023. The principle might be exploiting any available gradient in any way possible to cause RKE. I suppose that's the endgame, get it turnin'.

The input/output transducer

could be instrumental in causing Sam's binary star model to turn.

I'm just wingin' it. More dirt in the works,

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi Waltcy,
That's pretty cool! It looks like it's breathing. It's a funny thing; it was Gill Simo that got me to thinking about heavy rollers, with his thread "Excess Weight". Bessler said him self, the devil himself couldn't lift the wheel. I got to thinking, he, Gill is right, why so heavy? Why so godam heavy? Anyway, that lead to the binary star-----------Sam
ETA
The rollers have to be pretty heavy to do any good.

[JUBAT]

.
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Hey Jubat,

One of the ideas I have is what I've thought of as LSAM 1.0 © 2023. The principle might be exploiting any available gradient in any way possible to cause RKE. I suppose that's the endgame, get it turnin'.

The input/output transducer

could be instrumental in causing Sam's binary star model to turn.

I'm just wingin' it. More dirt in the works,

As cool as that linkage is, it would even be cooler to see it in self sustaining rotation. It would be amazing and for that reason, I don't think a solution is to be found that looks amazing. Bessler stating there isn't much to it has always lead me to believe the solution would be something so basic and simple you would feel like idiot for not inventing it. Something involving this linkage would blow me away due to its complex brilliance and I wouldn't feel bad for not thinking of it. I think the solution must introduce depression in inventors due to its simplicity.

All that being said, is this yet another distribution of weights around the perimeter as a solution?

But what do i know... if it's this complex, I will contend WC's announcement by saying we will not see a solution this year.

[WaltzCee]

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Hi Waltcy,
That's pretty cool! It looks like it's breathing.

Now that you mention it, Sam, it does mimic the motion of a pump.

[WaltzCee]

. .. .. .
may I ask...
Has anything at all been

• learnt/

• deduced/

• realised/

• discovered/

• advanced

• etc,

in terms of the . .. .. .

Yes, you may ask, Gill.

[agor95]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight-line_mechanism