Besslers prime mover and its enabler.

[Roxaway59]

Soon Fletcher I will be posting something related to the toy page. I am going to change my Avatar as a rather big clue then I'm going to start posting diagrams as to what I'm doing now.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

I'm hoping that you and the others will join me in making this thing work.
Graham

[Fletcher]

I can but try .. is it chaotic movement or a driven/forced oscillator ?

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[Roxaway59]

It isn't chaotic so I suppose you would call it the latter.
Graham

[Roxaway59]

It is an arrangement of weights that when placed together create an inverted pendulum that has the potential ability to swing down to 6 o'clock and then automatically flip itself back to the top due to the natural movement of the weights.
Graham

[WaltzCee]

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or a driven/chaotic
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IMG_20231124_195939.jpg (30.4 KiB) Viewed 105657 times

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an inverted pendulum that has the potential ability to swing down to 6 o'clock and then automatically flip itself back to the top due to the natural movement of the weights.

[Fletcher]

It is an arrangement of weights that when placed together create an inverted pendulum that has the potential ability to swing down to 6 o'clock and then automatically flip itself back to the top due to the natural movement of the weights.
Graham

Hi Fletcher, imagine an inverted pendulum that tips to the right. Its at its maximum speed at 6 o'clock but then has the ability to flip back to 12 o'clock. That differs from a mechanism like MT48 because the time taken for the pendulum to fall to 6 o'clock is a lot longer than it takes for it to get back to the top.

[ I know that John Collins is working on a mechanism that he believes is along the lines of what Bessler did like myself. The way I see it if a thousand of us believe that we are working on the mechanism that Bessler created and 999 of us are wrong it only takes one of us to be right. Also if a lot of us are working along a similar train of thought then maybe that is the right approach and it just needs tweaking. ]

I simulated my idea as much as I could in 2d but it is a 3d device so I could only simulate the main aspect of it. I then built 2 models, one of which was very basic and the other was more detailed and the more detailed one showed that the idea had promise but that it probably needs something else to give it a chance of working. That something else is what I am calling the prime mover.

One of the reasons why I think this is along the lines of what Bessler did is that if it doesn’t work the way I am approaching it there are still certain other possibilities. I don’t think I have ever had that with other designs I have worked on. Usually I’ve hit a brick wall with a sign that says your flogging a dead horse.
Graham

[WaltzCee]

Hello Graham,
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the idea had promise but that it probably needs something else to give it a chance of working. That something else is what I am calling the prime mover.

Do you have a design for the prime mover.

[Roxaway59]

I believe I may have it but I am realistic about these things and if things don't work as intended I believe this is the right approach or shall I say form. This is the form that the wheel needs to have.
Graham

[WaltzCee]

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That's fair, Graham. Do any call you Graham Pappy? : -------{)

I've SIM'ed a few 'mechanisms' & for some time considered a prime mover as something that moves. My test was to spin them up to about 300rpm. If they could still move inspite of cf, they were a candidate. I prefer paper & pencil anymore.

It seemed evident to me gravity caused their movement. Given that, & the prime mover causes an imbalance, could you speak to how physicists might explain it? Also this might be tangent to how you want to go about your thread, however that question isn't easily dismissed.

At times when people talk about building, I'm not sure if they mean building a SIM or a model. If I understand you, you've built a prototype of your prime mover. If so, can you drive it with a drill to see if it moves within your expected parameters a bit beyond rpm's where you expect it to operate? The upthread question about driven/chaotic, I think it's a driven oscillation. The part should travel along the same path, I think. People that have looked at your SIM should be able answer that.

Finally, it seems everyone is politely sitting back not commenting. Don't let them fool you. Your dialogue with Fletcher is an enjoyable read. I'm going to do the same.

[Roxaway59]

No I've never been called that WaltzCee --). If I was going to describe how I would think of a prime mover it would go something like this. We know what it isn't. We know that it is not just a simple lever or a pendulum or any of the devices that have a single simple function. So if it isn't a single function then it can be a combination of simple functions that we know about since simple thing can become complicated when they are combined. You only need to look at a computer that deals with one's and zeros but those ones and zeros although simple are used in a complex way. It really goes without saying that the prime mover serves a special function and that may mean that it actually does something that is unusual. I'm not going to give any examples here at the moment but sometimes objects that are a certain shape do unusual things when they spin. They can for example flip constantly and it is not chaotic. That very simple object would be classed as a special device in my book because of what it does. I will of course show what I believe is a special device on my wheel but if you are expecting flashes of lightning, laser beams and a one inch diameter sphere containing a black hole you are going to be disappointed --). Another thing we have to bear in mind about the prime mover is that it was an integral part of the wheel so the lines between it and its lets say enabler would be blurry. They both exist in a harmonious state because lets face it, would you expect anything less from a device that can miraculously keep on going and provide energy? I don’t think you would. Let me say at this point, that it would not surprise me in the least when this wheel is rediscovered that it has an analogy with an atom and that there is something that atoms do that this wheel does. I think that Johann Bessler was an incredible man to do what he did and what he must have gone through to discover this is hard to imagine. Such people are very rare indeed and I know that I personally could never have done what he did. All of us here on this forum believe in Johann Bessler and that there is a wheel there to rediscover so I will say this. Although Johann Bessler was very special and its difficult for any of us to walk in his shoes, he was a person just like us in other respects and if he could do it, we can to as long as we concentrate on the right basic ideas. This is something that I firmly believe. You can work on the wrong ideas for ever and a day but the right ones, because they are right will always have possibilities. Why? Because they are the right idea and the possibilities and the way forward are there for the taking even if it takes work to achieve it.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

Give me a few minutes and I will change my Avatar to a picture of what I am thinking of. I invite you to work it out but you wont have to because over the next couple of days I will be posting about it in detail.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

I have uploaded my new Avatar and firstly I would like to draw your attention to the similarity between it and MT24. A drawing that Bessler spoke very highly of. My design and that one have similarities but with some very key differences.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

I invite any comments and speculations from everyone but as I say you have no need to if you don't want to because I'm going to be going through this over the next couple of days.

Graham

[Fletcher]

Hey Graham .. I just can't see enough detail in your avatar to comment on .. so I'll take your advice and wait for the details of your proposal ..

However as you say there appears to be some similarity to MT's 24 and 25 - they of course use thru axle rope-pulls to illustratively control the distribution of forces and timing of supposed actions .. the suggestion is they are gravity activated ..

Best -f