Besslers prime mover and its enabler.

[JUBAT]

I don't see any 3 to 5 distribution. I don't even know what that is or what I'm supposed to be looking at.

It looks to me like the blue bawls fall down into the yellow ones and the distance between the 2 when apart increases.

I guess the density of the weights on the left side is spread out and they become more dense on the right.

If this is a runner, the clues Bessler left behind on the toys page make absolutely no sense at all. I don't make the connection.

Don't get caught up too much in this boys. A new face and a new idea it might be, but we all know the odds. Skepticism has prevented many a wheel from running.

[Roxaway59]

Gravity. I’m trying to think of the time when me and gravity first got introduced. Now I remember, I was eight years old and I was a very big fan of the original TV series Batman and Robin. I use to dream of being a caped crusader. Even to the point of getting my own batman outfit one Christmas. My dad was a very unusual guy and very resourceful. He once got me to hold the high tension lead of a magneto whilst he turned it with a piece of cord lighting my eyeballs up and making me jump into the air. His cry of “great that's working fine” wasn't of much of a consolation to being electrocuted. To be fair though we were a poor family so couldn’t afford test equipment. He also made his own flywheel out of concrete to put on a circular saw bench. That didn’t end well. It exploded and sent a piece of concrete whistling over the top of our house and crashed into a neighbours house removing part of the brick. The origin of that phantom piece of concrete remains a mystery to this very day. Anyway after being electrocuted by my dad I got a rather bad idea. I decided that I was going to have a go at being a real caped crusader and walk up the house on a rope. Luckily one of my dads other oddities was his propensity for hammering in six inch nails all over the back wall of the house to hang car parts on from time to time. I took a look. There, right at the top near a bedroom window was a large rusty nail he had put there for hanging god knows what on. It was perfect. I got a length of old washing line and made a loop on one end of it and then threw the rope time and time again until finally, success, it landed on the nail. This is going to be great I thought. Carefully I first got myself on top of a dustbin wobbling a little as I did so then I gave the rope a tug to make sure it was secure Just like Batman and Robin. Then off I went, putting first one foot on the wall then the other and very slowly I actually began to climb or should I say walk. It was a beautiful clear Spring day and the view as I walked up the wall was magnificent. I could appreciate all the hedgerows of the neighbours back gardens and flowers. What a great day it was to be alive. I’m not sure when it was that I started to realise that there might actually be a problem with what I was doing. Maybe it was when I briefly looked down and noticed how far off the ground I was or it could it have been the groaning sound coming from the rope or even the fact that the rope seemed to be slowly slipping off the nail. What ever it was I did what I usually do at times like this and ignored them all. That's the problem with having a stubborn streak a mile wide. As I approached the window sill I saw the rope move right up to the nail head and for one brief moment I remember thinking oh no. That's when the rope came off with a kind of very low frequency twang. So there I was, stood horizontally on the back of our house wearing a batman outfit. What do you think happened next? Can any of you guess? All you people are experts when it comes to Newtonian forces so come on, did I -
A) Rise higher up
B) Stay where I was or
C) Descend further downwards
When I recall it now my memory must be distorted because it seemed like I had all the time in the world as I stood there admiring the view but that pesky old gravity had other ideas. I think he saw me as some cheeky young upstart meddling with his authority. He wasn't going to show any favouritism not even to someone wearing a batman outfit and having a really bad day. Tarsier79 says that when something falls below the axle you cant lift it back again without doing more work or words to that effect. Well maybe you don’t have to. Maybe it can fall below the axle doing work and then still do work above the axle. Lets rewind the tape. The rope has not come off the nail yet. I'm still supported by my rope but there is another rope that is attached higher up say near the gutter. This new rope is nearly tight enough to give me support but it isn't doing so yet. When my rope comes off the nail the new rope immediately takes my weight. Now I would suggest to you that something very special just happened here. The trick is to recognise that its special. Its ok if you don’t agree with me on this we all have different ways of looking at things and as I stated when I joined the forum there are people here much more technical than me. However I bet I’m the only one here that was once electrocuted by his father and then stood horizontally on the back of his house wearing a batman outfit. That's got to count for something –).

[Roxaway59]

Picking it up again from the last thing I said about the wheel having a problem. There are two approaches to these two opposing sets of weights. You could leave them separate or you could connect them together. I decided that I would take the connected approach with the one I’m making for real. I made that decision because I felt that because the weights at 12 o’clock overbalance easier than the ones at 3 o’clock I may get away with having less weight on the blue weights and I felt that the mechanisms would work more smoothly. I’ve given a big hint there as to what the problem is, its the blue weights. The heavier you make them the weaker the pendulum. So if the wheel cant work as it is now and I wont know that till I have finished building, then something has to happen with the blue weights. The options are reduce them and try to find another way to help over balance, or shift them closer to the pivot which can work because the lever is non linear and doesn’t need as much leverage once the yellow weight begins to move. I hope this makes sense. I have chose to shift the blue weights because either way it makes the wheel more powerful.
Graham

[Roxaway59]

The next few things I will be posting will be to do with shifting weights.
Graham

[Roxaway59]

As an example of what I was talking about earlier. Run this Algodoo simulation and notice how the yellow weight ends up hanging further up on the wheel.
Graham

[Roxaway59]

Here is a simulation of something I actually built. You just have to imagine the blue lever weight hanging from slip rings on the end. Notice how the weight would lever the main weight but then in effect lift itself back up to the axle line. You are looking at the wheel side on. Remember this not the wheel I'm working on at the moment.
Graham

[Roxaway59]

At this point I would like my Avatar to become clearer. If you experiment with the Algodoo simulation gradually removing the mechanisms from both sides you will find it becomes weaker. I believe that this is what Bessler may have been referring to when he said the size of the wheel matters and that he could control the power to a fine degree.
Graham

[Roxaway59]

I should point out that I picked orange for the colours on the right in my early simulations not green.
Graham

[Roxaway59]

This is a more accurate depiction of what I'm aiming at. There is a single lever on the left showing how its being levered up and the one on the right is showing both sets of levers that are connected together showing their action. The hanging lever weights will almost certainly be a bit closer to the lever in reality. The rods that the weights are on are made out of different material in an attempt to keep them the same weight. If you zoom out and look to the left you will see a mock up of what I am building to experiment with.
Graham

[JUBAT]

I'm kind of grasping where you're going. It's kind of like the hanging monkey principle. He swings from branch to branch alternating arms as he travels along. I'm not seeing evidence of rotation yet, but keep talking and I'll skeptically follow...

[Roxaway59]

Hi JUBAT, basically if the blue lever weights or are not too large or shifted towards the pivot the pendulum and thus power for the wheel is there else it disappears.
Graham

[Roxaway59]

I will be working more on my actual mechanism for the next couple of days. That way I can find out what needs to be done.
Graham

[Tarsier79]

I don't see an advantage of having 3 weights instead of just one. The major difference is the 3 weights will have more inertia, be harder to accelerate etc. Increased inertia can just be added by moving and adjusting a single weight with the law of levers to a further distance and dividing the weight.

Are the 3 weights fixed in relation to eachother?

[johannesbender]

As an example of what I was talking about earlier. Run this Algodoo simulation and notice how the yellow weight ends up hanging further up on the wheel.
Graham

Very easy build there Rox59 , you could verify the legitimacy of your view or our opinion on it , my opinion your example of hanging on a rope against the wall then switching to a higher rope to imply the weight does not need lifting is fine because the wall with the attachment point (your rusty nail and gutter) does not fall and rotate around an axle , which leaves you in +- more or less the same spot (you actually have to be suspended fully by both ropes being taught to remain at the exact height) .

However lets now move on to a wheel where the suspension points fall and rotate around the axle all along with the weight pulling on them , in this case the weight falls down along (it has to because if it did not fall it could not apply its force to the ropes) ,once the weight traveled all the way down to its lowest point and goes around to the other side , it now has to travel upwards all the way back to its starting position (it has to lift) , and in doing so by means of energy losses the weight cannot reach all the way back to the top , this is why people say it has to be lifted .

Btw , I have one where the weight start higher than the wheel , its pulled down by a spring for extra KE while in a vertical slot and has a rod pushing the wheel , when the spring has pulled it all the way down to the rim it has given the wheel the KE of the extra height + spring energy , then it latches on the wheel at 12 and adds to the previous already existing KE as it falls down to 6 and then lifts all the way back to 12 and past , I experimented with no spring but it was difficult with the weight vs the extra height .

The idea was to impart extra RKE in the wheel from the extra height before the weight latches on to the wheel at 12 and adds to that RKE by falling along the rim , it proved to me a weight could give enough energy to drive itself around a wheel when it has more height (more GPE than what is needed) than the total height of the vertical diameter of the wheel , however as we all know you still have to pick the weight back up to reset it to its starting height (the extra height I gave it).

[Roxaway59]

Hi Johannesbender, the example I showed with the ropes is not about falling its about shifting and oscillation. The only thing my blue lever weights need to do is shift around. It may be that I don't even need to do that at all and I wont really know that without experimenting with the real thing. Of course anyone here with 3d simulators can probably do this much more effectively but if anyone is doing that they haven't posted it as far as I know.
Graham