MTM5

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MrVibrating
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Re: MTM5

Post by MrVibrating »

I've added a 'net momentum' meter - it just calculates the main axial and orbital momenta and sums them together, omitting the minor masses in the arm joints for now - imperfect but a concession to equation length limits, take it as a conservative approximation:

Image

The most obvious detail this highlights is that most of the momentum is gained in the first cycle, corresponding to the protracted drop on the initial stroke, and subsequent rapid re-lift.

The net momentum keeps rising incrementally each cycle thereafter, but with less of an I/O acceleration * time asymmetry compared to that first cycle.

So the options would seem to be: stop and start, or spin & brake in single cycles, thus maintaining that wide I/O asymmetry for every cycle, or else, go for the subsequent many small gains per unit time as a function of higher speeds.

I guess the thing to do is experiment and compare the relative efficiencies of each option..

The fact that it's possible to gain any angular momentum at all via the internal expenditure of work in a closed system of interacting angular inertias just seems incredible - and yet it's so easy, and seemingly physically consistent..

Glad i managed to dismiss it for a week anyway.. i needed that break..
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Re: MTM5

Post by MrVibrating »

I'm sure that in the past, i've pegged MoI and RPM controls to at least six digits stably using reactive feedback, so there's more potential yet to be realised from the technique..

Ideally it would be cool to be able to get the speed variation on the flywheel down into the noise levels so it's no longer even a factor.. only looks to be a few percent variation at the moment tho, and flywheel momentum will still be fluctuating as a function of its changing MoI regardless..

Also, with the rough & ready feedback technique currently employed, the more precise the speed control gets, the more volatile and frequency-sensitive the sim becomes; a better formula for controlling the flywheel actuator would be one that works consistently and precisely at all freqs..

If anyone has any ideas here, the basic technique is to use the flywheel speed's deviation from the given target speed as the input value for the resulting corrective MoI variation. There should be a logical classical equation that instantly calculates the precise MoI compensations to lock the flywheel to its target speed whatever the insult, it's just a matter of puzzling it out..

Not a major priority for now, the improvisations seem to work at least..
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Re: MTM5

Post by MrVibrating »

I tried reverting back to the previous flywheel actuator code, which reduces the speed variation by a factor of ten, and also produces smoother-looking plots; so here's that previous run again using the alternate control method:

Image

iKE = 1210.44649234
fKE = 1778.33442561
dKE = +567.88793327

kPt = 534.1047286
fPt = -5.20443388

net in = 534.1047286
net out = 573.09236715
difference = +38.98763855
CoP = 1.073

..this has also reduced the energy gain however. The KE gain alone is still 33 J - not to be sniffed at - but is this correlation between tightness of the speed regulation and CoP causative, as this comparison might imply? Only way to find out is to introduce a little more slack, still using this same controller method, but investigating whether a bit of 'give' on the flywheel speed boosts the energy gain..
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Re: MTM5

Post by MrVibrating »

OK this is interesting: the same config, changing only the flywheel actuator control code, produces wildly different energy results.

Here's the first example:

Image

Being overly cautious of losing any data to startup gremlins i ignored the first cycle here, only beginning the measurement from the start of the second cycle, plotting five cycles in all:

iKE = 1432.34842591
fKE = 1666.12133867
dKE = +233.77291276

kPt = 222.5462662
fPt = 10.31402831

net in = 232.86029451
net out = 233.77291276
diff = +0.91261825

So a paltry gain there, neat as the integral is.

Here's the second example, identical but for using the alternative controller code:

Image

iKE = 1431.87741313
fKE = 1663.54590040
dKE = +231.66848727

kPt = 221.1270421
fPt = -130.4788429

net in = 221.1270421
net out = 362.14733017
diff = 141.02028807
CoP = 1.64

The two alternate finishing frames are virtually identical, but for the contents of the flywheel actuator integral.. which has gone from 10 J positive to 130 J negative!

Apparently it ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it.

Closer examination of how any why this torque curve difference arises is needed to determine whether it's legitimate or erroneous..
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Re: MTM5

Post by MrVibrating »

Here's the two different regimes:

• 1.5-(2-body[14].v.r)*700

This is the first one, controlling the actuator for 'velocity'. This converts the difference between the actual speed of the primary armature and its set target speed into linear radial speed of the flywheel actuator, so that when the armature slows down the MoI retraction speeds up, and when the armature speeds up the MoI extension speeds up. The '700' figure is the multiplier used to amplify the initially-small RPM delta into a sufficiently-prompt MoI compensation, and can be raised in line with sim frequency. Setting it too high for a given freq invites runaway over-compensations leading to RUD. Setting it too low introduces slack in the MoI response leading to under-compensation and system deceleration.

So this produces a tidy-looking integral, but little I/O energy anomaly.

The gainful one looks like this:

• 1.5-(2-body[14].v.r)*2

..basically the same equation, only using a much smaller multiplier, and this time controlling the actuator for 'length' directly, rather than just hunting for the right length by floating the radial velocity. So the actuator has an initial length of 1.5 m, from which the deviation from the primary arm's target speed is then deducted, producing the MoI retraction and compensating inertial torques from the ice-skater effect.

In either case, we're relying on the sim to calculate the corresponding torque values being applied as a function of angle, per N2 (F=mA or torque = angular inertia * angular acceleration) and its inversions.

If the objective were to eliminate the anomaly, the obvious course of action would be to assume the more-conservative outcome correct, the gainful one erroneous, and then continue to work on the former in the attempt to get it down to unity and closure.

Given the objective of OU however - and the preceding results using the constant-velocity motor - the imperative now is to analyse why the two functions produce such different torque curves, and try to determine if the anomaly is legitimate or else due to a failing metric or dodgy N2 violation..
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Re: MTM5

Post by MrVibrating »

Here i'm zooming in on a two-cycle run, again omitting the first cycle to preclude any startup noise, beginning the measurement from the start of the second cycle at the frame below:

Image

The energy results of that single cycle are as follows:

iKE = 1431.87368072
fKE = 1491.90812646
dKE = +60.03444574

kPt = 56.99851084
fPt = -34.50538244

net in = 56.99851084
net out = 94.53982818
diff = +37.54131734
CoP = 1.66

Immediately it becomes apparent that when using the other method, controlling the actuator for 'velocity', this smooths over the sharp dyke in that saw-tooth transition.

Thus it appears that the 'more conservative' result was actually due to a lazier reaction from the actuator, the latency inherent to controlling the actuator's velocity rather than its specific length.

The gain is thus not refuted by the counter-example as it's simply skidding over the gainful torque transition, missing the opportunity. Controlling for 'length' produces this more-immediate response, tracing a more-detailed interaction.

Let's examine each stage of the flywheel interaction in respect of the kiiking action it's responding to. It's basically a four-stroke cycle - spin up, spin down, then repeat in the opposite angular direction.

Remember, the spin-up code on the weight motor controls for 'velocity', using the sine of the secondary armature angle as a multiplier for the target spin-up speed, such that it reaches a maximum of '1' at 9 o' clock and '-1' at 3 o' clock, fading smoothly up and down from '0' at the 12 and 6 o' clock positions. The target speed is relative, hence the applied acceleration is shared between the absolute velocities of the weight and secondary armature.

So here's the first stroke:

Image

The weight motor is performing work spinning up the weight, and so applying the counter-torque that's resisting the weight's fall under CF force, slowing its descent and so increasing its time spent under this G-force's constant acceleration, boosting the drop's effective momentum yield.

In parallel to this action however, the flywheel actuator begins the cycle mid-way through an output stroke - it's in the process of extending the flywheel's MoI, braking it against some source of positive torque whilst harvesting KE into PE..

Since the weight's distance from the central axis is increasing, it must be applying negative inertial torque, which would require the flywheel to accelerate in response, so whatever the source of this positive torque it is more powerful that the negative torque corresponding to the widening MoI.

Yet this torque is also in the same direction that the weight is being spun up - the counter-torque from which is in the opposite direction, albeit now being sunk to CF force and time.

There is only one remaining moment that could account for this positive torque component: the weight's orbital axis, ie. the kiiking (green) axis; the counter-torque from spinning it up is also decelerating its orbital velocity, and so the positive torque being countered and harvested by the flywheel actuator during this stroke can only be the counter-torque corresponding to this orbital deceleration.

In effect, the gainful interaction begins in the process of harvesting part of the previous cycle's energy gain (or priming energy, whichever precedes).

So we've identified part of where our positive torque's originating.. in the previous cycle. The area under the curve below the zero line is PE in the bag.

Let's go on to stroke 2:

Image

On the left side we see the weight decelerating back to stationary relative to the secondary armature. This recoups much of its KE back into PE, whilst transferring its axial AM into orbital AM on the kiiking axis.

On the right side we again see more harvesting of flywheel KE into PE as the weight reaches maximum extension having expended all of its CF-PE. Again it's notable that this increase in MoI on the primary axis hasn't required countering by a positive torque from an MoI retraction on the flywheel, its actuator instead extending to brake against a more-powerful positive torque, harvesting more PE.

Since the kiiking axis is now accelerating and in the same direction as the primary armature, the source of this positive torque can only be the counter-torque from de-spinning the weight.

Moving on to stroke 3:

Image

The weight motor is back under positive load, spinning the weight up the other way. The resulting counter-torque is accelerating the lifting phase, reducing the dwell time under the G-force's constant deceleration and so minimising the momentum being shed back where it came from.

Again however, instead of seeing the flywheel actuator extending to counter the MoI retraction from the inbound weight, it initially retracts, adding positive rather than negative inertial torque - again, apparently the ice-skater effect is being overpowered by the counter-torque from spinning up the weight..

..only after this spin-up phase completes, its counter-torque ceasing, does the flywheel MoI begin extending in response to the narrowing MoI on the primary armature, ending the stroke with more harvesting of PE.

On to the final stroke:

Image

The final de-spin recoups further PE on the weight motor, the counter-torque from deceleration of the kiiking axis / secondary armature once again overpowering the inertial torque from the retracting MoI on the primary armature, hence the flywheel actuator pulling its MoI back in, until the weight's de-spun and the positive inertial torque from its retraction is finally felt and countered, delving into that last scoop of KE to PE from orbital braking torque that begins the subsequent cycle.


This might not be the most accurate or exhaustive of analyses but the gist of it seems to be that at every step, the mechanism is operating consistently - some of the PE gain on the central axis (active flywheel or motogen, since these results seem to corroborate those) is being harvested from axial counter-torques, others from orbital, seemingly flipping between them in opposite quadrants.

A juggling act of axial and orbital counter-momenta thus seems to be key to the gain mechanism, as indicated by earlier analyses.

The foundation of the energy asymmetry is the divergent inertial reference frame generated by the I/O ±dp/dt asymmetry; making momentum (and thus energy) from inertia a game of differentials.

The most concise root of understanding remains the internal FoR, equivalent to kiiking under gravity: we have an ideally time-constant rate of exchange of momentum, here provided by an actively-regulated G-force in the form of CF force, and a time-asymmetric inbound versus outbound ±dp/dt with corresponding non-cancelling yields, accumulating under conditions of inertial isolation from the environment as an effectively unilateral acceleration of the FoR of the input-energy workload, the KE gain equal to the half-square of the inertia times the 'velocity' component of the anomalous momentum delta. Yup, that old cliché.

I guess the next thing to do is probably go back to using the motogen - doing it this way is just masochism if unnecessary - checking off the internal reactions in the same way whilst tabbing up the energy evolution. I honestly expected the active flywheel to circumvent some bug in the motogen metrology but instead we're seeing independent corroboration of a consistent effect.. the initial impression of a tendency towards unity an inadvertent result of the laggy flywheel actuator control code failing to replicate the instantaneous responsiveness of the motogen.

What sufficiently-responsive active constraints are showing is that there's a physically-consistent chain of causality throughout the interaction. Nothing is bugging out. CoE is broken, because CoAM is.
Last edited by MrVibrating on Sun Dec 17, 2023 7:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MTM5

Post by Fletcher »

Given the objective of OU however - and the preceding results using the constant-velocity motor - the imperative now is to analyse why the two functions produce such different torque curves, and try to determine if the anomaly is legitimate or else due to a failing metric or dodgy N2 violation..
Hi MrV .. not much time leading up to Xmas ..

I think it is important you get to the bottom of why the big differences .. at least a theory on a trend .. feels like discreet frame calculation steps are a problem ..

fwiw in the real-world if you were to try and control speed so closely you would probably just use an electric motor with a speed controller of some sort and meter the summed power usage against KE output etc -- to do that via a mechanical means would probably involve something like a Watts Fly-ball Governor -- but that would still lag somewhat I'm guessing ..

Best ..
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Re: MTM5

Post by MrVibrating »

I think it's solved mate - converting the RPM delta into 'velocity' changes in the flywheel actuator was just pouring molasses into the gain mechanism; converting them into instantaneous length / MoI corrections instead reveals a consistent 1:1 interplay of action and reaction at every step in the gain sequence - it appears fully causal throughout.

The problem with using variable is-f in conjunction with active feedback / servo-type controls is the inevitable jitter that arises; single steps OTOH trace the thinnest line integral, thus giving the most accurate area-under-curve. Another issue is that variable is-f may cause rounding errors to accumulate from whatever the permitted integrator error margin - and then finally, even if you push that down into the noise floor of the 16 internal sigfigs, you're looking at day-long runtimes for maybe 30 secs of sim time.

I have already cross-corroborated between the two techniques however.. single is-f with zero i-e and 16 digits internal seems perfectly accurate, but runs in frickin' realtime, so i can dissect an interaction into quadrants like this in one evening instead of over a long weekend..

I think the current levels of consistency and cross-referencing are doing the job, and all pointing one way..

Worth keeping in mind that constant velocity, while useful in delineating the interaction, is unlikely a necessary condition - in principle so long as the opportune torque curves are there and aligned accordingly it should be possible to accelerate with or against them whilst still harnessing the asymmetry - if not further optimising it in the process. We'll get there.

The biggest win from replicating with the active flywheel is it's damned inertial isolation - basically dropping the veil from the brazen N1 violation now staring us in the face. Now we know what we're dealing with, can meter its progression and watch net system momentum crank ever-higher with every elapsed cycle. Remember when non-constant system momenta with gravity disabled was a sure-fire red flag? Halcyon days, but welcome to the new normal: we're making momentum, from inertia and time.

Inertia and time, apparently, provide a direct interface between classical and quantum realms.. Was it Wolfe or Leibniz who surmised "some substance beyond the senses.." driving Bessler's wheels.. that first allusion to what we now regard as vacuum or ZP energy, three centuries ago..
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Re: MTM5

Post by MrVibrating »

LOL out of curiosity i tried pinning the flywheel to the main armature axis, so everything's going around together at the same speed in the same direction on a single axis.

Because CF squares with RPM, this meant making the flyweights much heavier (200 kg each), and sliding in and out much further, in order to generate similar levels of compensating inertial torque to the lighter, faster flywheel.

Soo.. still an energy asymmetry and momentum gain, but check out its cost:

Image
ignore the AM metrics they still need rewiring here

iKE = 369.63696327
fKE = 458.95046977
dKE = +89.3135065

kPt = 83.45443861
fPt = 44386.79078

net in = 44470.24521861
net out = 89.3135065
diff = -44380.93171211

It a frickin' energy dumpster! If you wanted to stop a freight train without generating any heat or wearing anything out, this thing's just eaten 44 kJ for breakfast.. non-dissipatively!

It carries on doing that every cycle thereafter - you can see the sizeable inversion of the asymmetry in the integral, with maybe 3x the area over the zero line than under. It's a mechanical energy black hole! Interesting also that it does this whilst still generating momentum, rather than destroying it. Raises the question of whether destroying momentum might also have negative or positive energy efficiency..
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Re: MTM5

Post by MrVibrating »

...and back down with a thud: just hit a major inconsistency..

Using the full first cycle as an extended priming period to iron out any startup ringing, i pulled a second-cycle CoP that blew all previous results out of the water, over 700 % for that one cycle.

So i carefully excised it, discarding the first cycle and beginning a new sim devoting all 32,765 frames to this one bumper-booty cycle - also removing all priming code so it just begins in natural motion, already into its jive.

Lo and behold, the flywheel integral that previously paid out 440 J now had a positive cost of 95 J, a formerly 700 % gain now amounting to a 200 % loss.

The traces look identical between both runs however - i can't tell them apart anyway. Yet there's this massive discrepancy. Eyeballing it, it certainly doesn't look like there's 7x the area under the curve as over.

Some runs do clearly do show an asymmetry, with much more area below than above the curve. Yet the implication of this discrepancy is that the integral is collecting junk, somehow. None of these results are trustworthy, for now.

I'm going back to v5.3 using discs and a motogen, KISS, and currently running a 1e-22 i-e variable i-s/f sim of an earlier reference run showing a visible asymmetry in its motogen plot. It's gonna take hours to run so nowt to do in the meantime but wait and see if i can get any verifiable data out of this thing..

Fletch was right tho, seems you can't trust single i-s/f no matter how low the integrator error. Variable i-s/f does not play well with reactive feedback, at least the crude form i'm currently implementing, so no point trying to proceed with the active flywheel harnessing.

Can we even trust that it's legitimately gaining momentum? In all prior attempts, kiiking under CF conserved net system momentum. Are we really breaking N1 this time? All i know it, -440 J turning into +95 J isn't a red light so much as a train wreck..
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Re: MTM5

Post by MrVibrating »

So here's what happened before i hit the sack earlier:

Image

..i mean it just looks too good to be true, right off the bat.

So i lobbed off that first cycle, spreading the second one over the full available memory, removed all interrupting code and let it run au naturale:

Image

..finding that the flywheel actuator is actually burning 95 J - but you can clearly see there's much more area over the curve than under. From -470 under to +95 over - half a bleedin' kJ variance - from the same config.

Drat. What am i doing with my life?

So in the effort to try crawl back to terra firma, i've gone back to the 5.3 iteration using nested discs and a moto-gen, using a saved reference example.

Before getting some kip i set it up to run at max freq using variable i-s/f, 1e-22 integrator error. Dunno how many hours it took but it was done by the time i got up:

Image

Now that's a good-looking result - you can see the meat hanging off the bone there, as it should be. Note however that the kiiking motor integrals are plotting a thicker line - these are micro-tremors from running multiple integration steps per frame - basically averaging over a bunch of different solutions on how much torque was applied for each frame.

This also thus illustrates why var i-s/f doesn't play nicely with reactive feedback control loops, since each individual integration step produces a slightly different solution, and hence MoI variation and consequent inertial torque, which in turn affects every other value in the system.. this is why selecting var i-s/f for the active flywheel method instantly chokes or explodes, where single i-s/f just rips through, spitting out single solutions to each frame and so progressing like clockwork; it's not exactly 'real-time' but you can see the bleedin' parts move as it works. Var i-s/f is like watching paint dry, all the while trying to stifle further ideas because you gotta wait for the damn thing to finish before you can act on its results..

But anyway, after the var i-s/f run completed i retook it using single i-s/f for comparison. Here's the outcome:

var i-s/f
i-e = 1e-22

iKE = 23.50030165
fKE = 32.03928266
dKE = +8.53898101

kPt = 8.571248658
kTa = 8.571248775
fPt = -12.16832936
fTa = -12.16764186

net in = 8.571248775
net out = 20.70662287
diff = +12.135374095
CoP = 2.42



single i-s/f
i-e = 0

iKE = 23.50008616
fKE = 32.03871706
dKE = +8.5386309

kPt = 8.536107413
kTa = 8.538033636
fPt = -6.16253609
fTa = -6.152325234

net in = 8.538033636
net out = 14.690956134
diff = +6.152922498
CoP = 1.72


So we're still in lala land (don't go burning your bra hats just yet), and the slow-cooked result is actually twice as bountiful. Obviously we're conservative grinches so happy to go along with the fixed i-s/f result.

It was already known that reactive feedback can compromise data integrity, but the possibility of re-establishing the gradient via alternate means seemed worth the risk; the take-home i guess is to remain suspicious of any disunity you can't visually see right there in the integral with your own eyes.

In principle i think it's still tenable to apply reactive feedback safely and usefully, but it can't be the 'blind hunting' type where it's merely trying to zero a delta by chunking it up with a crude multiplier.. like trying to pin the tail on the pinata using a jackhammer. The sensible approach should aim to precisely calculate compensations empirically, to prevent conflicts between multiple integration steps per frame.

So on balance, it does look like the active flywheel confirms the gradient's there, but i wouldn't trust its current numbers beyond what i can see in the areas above and below the line integral.

As such i also believe it's establishing inertial isolation and hence the N1 break - the continual net momentum gain per cycle. But until these facts can be reliably quantified - which has to mean all integration methods show an anomaly which is also plainly visible in the plots - these conclusions have to remain preliminary.

Ultimately, we have to move beyond constant-velocity systems and start pecking into this gradient by more organic means; holding velocity on the harnessing constraint is the filter that's revealed the presence of the gradient, but that doesn't imply a necessary condition for diving down into it; as we better understand its nature, alternative experiments will surely suggest themselves. We have an exposed thread to pull on, and all indications are that it's a live wire.

Solving the issue of empirical servo controls has to precede any further use of such techniques, at least for data acquisition purposes. This will enable confirmation of the flywheel versions and inertial isolation / N1 violation etc. but also pave the way for further embodiments.

That said, if anyone can come up with some alternative application of the effect that circumvents the need for such techniques entirely then following that up would obviously take priority. For now though, there's a tangible path forwards in deriving var i-s/f compatible servo controls at least, but alternative options are limited only by the imagination..
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Re: MTM5

Post by MrVibrating »

Since the central thesis is that time-asymmetric interactions with any force can kiike for momentum - force is just force - i've been keen to try the same trick using springs:

Image
Yes-way - springs work just as well as gravity or CF force!

Note the interesting symmetries when the motogen direction's reversed - the work integrals are the same, the KE gain reduced by the square of the absolute angular velocity difference, and the energy anomaly simply inverting; destroying ~140 J instead of creating it.

This iteration thus further clarifies the nature of the free energy gradient, clearly identifying it as the kiiking axis momentum.

We pay unity efficiency for the work done on the kiiking axis, but its reactionless momentum is available for assisting additional work, which may be positive or negative depending on the direction in which it is applied relative to whatever the attached workload.


We can demonstrate that this momentum is anomalous using a basic spin & brake test:

• under conditions of inertial isolation (no stators or other means of externally-applied torque), begin kiiking from a teetering start at TDC

• after some time, lock the rotor against the kiiking axis

If the internal motions were in full observance of N3, all motion would cease when the rotor is braked back against the other inertias it originally accelerated against. We would normally expect the above conditions to preclude the possibility of any remnant motions or uncancelled momenta.

So here's that same run again, this time with the motogen disabled and all motion generated internally to the system, now simply locking the rotor after the five cycles instead of pausing the sim:

Image
The kiiking moment is reactionless..

The rotor motor's oscillations still obey N3 of course, but because the kiiking moment they're inducing is sourced directly from a F*t asymmetry (strictly speaking an I/O ±dp/dt asymmetry), it's acquisition simply did not involve the production of counter-torque or counter-momentum in the first place. By buying our momentum directly from a force (any force!) and time, we sidestep N3 entirely.

It's perhaps worth emphasising that we haven't 'violated' N3 - which, for all we know, remains as inviolable today as it was yesterday - we've just gone around it.

Whichever way you spin it however, the result is a humiliating take-down for N1, gaining unilateral unbalanced momentum solely from the internal expenditure of work, against purely internal forces.

Basically, the only tenuous thread ever enforcing N1 was N3. Its flanks were always wide open to this particular exploit. This trick we all learn intuitively as kids down on the park swings.. the only difference is an exchange of the kiiking workload, from rotating via work performed against CF force, to oscillating via work performed against angular inertia.

Now we know exactly the nature of the gain mechanism, we can begin making coherent plans for applying it. The basic lay of the land is that it'll assist or resist any load applied to that axis - so we could use it to bias a pulley lifting a weight, or whatevs.

Just going with that example of an assisted GPE interaction; consider a light mass raising a heavier mass via regular power conversion (ie. obeying the law of levers); hitch the kiiking momentum to that axis and your final output GPE will be greater than your input GPE plus kiiking work. You'll pay unity efficiency for the kiiking action, which for its part is entirely superfluous but for its unbalanced momentum, the advantage from which amounts to free work.

This also means however that we're forced to work with dual systems, since you can't harness an unbalanced momentum without grounding it. It is what it is.

Focusing on the constant-velocity issue is just rearranging the furniture.. it's time to start applying this thing..

As a final demonstration, here's the 5.3 config again, this time treating the motogen as a priming aid, disabling it 0.01 ms into proceedings:

Image
Constant velocity was always a tertiary issue!

Note that the wheel still speeds up and slows down due to the ice-skater effect from the weight changing radius, yet when each kiiking cycle returns to TDC the wheel still has the same 2 rad/s it began with. In principle the constant-velocity problem would be neatly solved by reciprocating kiikers alternating inner / outer positions in alternate sync..

Note further that despite this fact that the wheel's coasting momentum is conserved throughout, the kiiking axis continues accelerating, gaining additional momentum from CF force and time. The induction of this fresh angular momentum is not decelerating the wheel, because it is reactionless in relation to it. Obviously, if we ended by braking the kiiking action its momentum would be shared with the wheel, accelerating it beyond 2 rad/s.

Principally, what we have here is not, in and of itself, an energy gain or even an energy anomaly.. but something more primal: a momentum gain. This is what dictates its terms of application in harnessing. Momentum itself is not the potential to perform work, yet may be applied to assist any workload. To wit, it is a divergent inertial frame; developing without inertial interaction with its environment.

Dragon by the tail. Watch this space..
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MrVibrating
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Re: MTM5

Post by MrVibrating »

Every time Bessler ran his wheels - especially when under load - he was grounding all of the momentum gain. Even when unloaded, he didn't even have roller bearings, just trunnion-type open journals, that friction continually commuting stray momentum to Earth.

There is no longer any room for doubt about the coincidence between the Weissenstein demo and the deluge that descended upon the NW European coastline that Christmas:

https://www.google.com/search?q=christmas+flood

We have correlation, and causation.
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John Collins
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Re: MTM5

Post by John Collins »

I confess that I tend to skim through your erudite posts Mr V, not through lack of interest but rather my own inability to understand most of it, but I did not know of the great flood of 1717, and I found that an interesting side topic, so thank you for that. I’m not sure I agree with your correlation and causation conclusion, but I liked it too.

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Re: MTM5

Post by MrVibrating »

A belated thank you is due for that thoughtful article on kiiking, a few years ago now.. It is the ability to propel oneself on the swing, without needing the externally-applied push of a parent or sibling, that exemplifies the nature of the exploit here! As i could find no more apt term in English, the Estonian word stuck with me.. ('pumping the swing' kinda works, but it's a phrase not a word..)

As incredible as it may seem, i believe the demonstrations above prove beyond doubt that this was the effect Bessler was exploiting - a violation of the first law of mechanics.

There is no doubt however that the exploit grounds stray momentum, this most-fundamentally conserved of properties, and that as such, the changes his work inevitably applied to the planet's resting momentum state, small as they may have been, must still be with us.

The particular kiiking technique that must be applied (torquing against additional angular inertias but which only oscillate, not fully rotating) is highly synthetic and not going to arise in nature without intelligent intervention, and there really is no prior precedent for its net effect of unilateral acceleration. The actions look intuitively causal - as of course they are - so much so that it would be easy to miss, or take for granted, their aberrant nature, and the sustainability risks their effects pose if unmanaged.

The basic 'motogen' may be safe, since it harnesses the gain via the ice-skater effect as the weight moves back in towards the center, without physically torquing directly against the unbalanced momentum, but regardless, any system can be made safe by spinning duplicate rotors in opposite directions.

Introducing an N1 violation into an otherwise-closed system - such as a planet floating in space - only has one possible outcome however, and so long as an unbalanced system is left running - especially under load, performing or demonstrating useful work - it is making permanent changes to the planet's resting state of motion, specifically its spin. This fact, again, is only to restate the first law of mechanics.

By all accounts, 2024 is set to be one momentous year.. Happy holidays!
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