Besslers prime mover and its enabler.

[Roxaway59]

Hi spinner361, the tilted crossbar is a copy of the straight one that has then just been turned a bit. If you look closely at the ends you can see there is a small gap where the lines are.
Graham

[Fletcher]

I just wanted to expand a little on the way I see this.

All our lives we are use to watching wheels of one form or another grind to a halt. To us it is perfectly natural and the only exception to this is a wheel that is powered by something and very often that is electricity.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A wheel is a dead object and it has no life and on its own we would never expect it to continue rotating. It isn't so difficult to imagine a wheel that has the ability to power itself as having a life of its own almost like a living thing. In a way its even a little spooky because its not supposed to happen.

So anyone who gives the wheel life is almost messing with creation itself and I have already theorized that a working wheel may have an analogy with atomic structure. Which is of course the fundamental building blocks of everything.

When Bessler discovered how to do this it isn’t so surprising to me that his thinking became more theological and philosophical because he would have known instinctively that this was more than just a wheel that could power itself. It went a lot deeper than that. I’m not going to get into this today because now is not the time but this world doesn’t work the way that most people think it does. It is very important that we rediscover how to do this.

I might start a thread on this one day - dax would have the answers and detail behind the watch making etc ..

B. was reportedly a clock maker, tho this skill or art gets hardly any mention or attention - IIRC on a voyage to England he repaired a pocket watch of a fellow traveler to defray his costs ..

John Harrison built his H1 Marine Chronometer for finding Longitude at sea after 5 years of building (in 1735) - he didn't claim his prize of 20,000 pounds (which he was entitled to) for another 20 years because he kept building better and more accurate clocks till he was completely satisfied ..

The first clock had an oscillating coordinated dual pendulum arrangement and which was weight driven like any grandfather clock i.e. the drive weight needed lifting periodically to reset PE ..

B. shows in his Kassel wheel copper engraving dual opposed pendulums, tho there is no witness report of anyone seeing them in storage or in use .. gotta feel they are important as just one pendulum would have done for speed regulation, and 2 are definitely not required, so it is obvious overkill/signalling - and they are 180 degs out of phase anyway ..

B's. Toy's Page shows 2 toys C & D which are in effect pendulum push and pull devices which also seems overkill to show twice, unless - it is signalling ..

Wolff hears an iron spring-like sound expanding as B. replaced weights into the Merseburg wheel .. B. says his wheels don't use springs like used in clocks that need rewinding (lifting the drive weight periodically by muscle power) - note the difference ..

Happenstance, or completely unrelated coincidences ?

Did B. just create the first self-winding clock in the form of a rotating wheel ? No more imbued with life force than any other self-winding watch ! ..

fwiw I agree with Sam .. let's keep it in the land of mechanics as much as possible ..

[Roxaway59]

Hi Fletcher I agree that we should concentrate on the task in hand. I think that if Mr B created a very large clock then someone with the right skills and time and money should replicate it and put this whole thing to bed. It will have to be able to lift fairly large weights and be able to run for 2 months though before I will take it serious.
Graham

[Roxaway59]

The wheel I have been posting videos on is now operating better than before. It operates with two stops per mechanism not unlike the hammer men. It doesn't go over unity for the reasons I have stated but I think I may know how to give it a chance to. I hope to try this out before Christmas but either way I will post videos showing its operation.
Graham

[daxwc]

Roxaway59 : B. shows in his Kassel wheel copper engraving dual opposed pendulums, tho there is no witness report of anyone seeing them in storage or in use .. gotta feel they are important as just one pendulum would have done for speed regulation, and 2 are definitely not required, so it is obvious overkill/signalling - and they are 180 degs out of phase anyway ..

I don’t believe that is true.

November 1717 - Pamphlet published by Bessler (Kassel):
"Orffyreus removed from Merseburg to Cassel, where he was made a town councillor, and began at Weissenstein, near Cassel, to construct his improved machine. He published, in November, 1717, a tract called 'News of the curious and wonderful trial of the Orffyrian Wheel' at the Castle of Weissenstein, near Cassel, which has been from November, 1717, to 1718 - eight weeks in all, shut up in an apartment, and sealed by the Landgrave in his Castle; and which on being opened satisfied him of the truth of perpetual motion; and 10,000 rix-dollars were offered to anyone executing a similar work. The diameter of this wheel was 12 feet, and one and a half feet thicker (than the Merseburg machine), the axle was 6 feet long and 8 inches thick; the frame of solid oak, and on each side has a pendulum fixed, which equally regulates the movement. It raises a very heavy box full of stones by means of a pulley; without any visible outward means of effecting the motion. This invention is considered a true perpetual motion, as attested by the Landgrave in his Certificate dated 27th May, 1718, and it is believed to be a self-turning wheel that will work as long as the materials last." - PMV 98

It had to been seen by people or his enemies would have been all over it.

DT listings:
8. Pendulums on each side to keep machine running true.
p. Pendulum for use when machine is to be operated
slowly.

[Fletcher]

8. Pendulums on each side to keep machine running true.

Hi dax .. it was me who made that comment, poor old Rox59 .. the above quote is from B's. DT and relates to the Merseburg wheel engraving with the pendulums attached to the wheel .. not a witness ..


Yet, Borlach made an engraving of it and published it, and B. corrected the Borlach engraving - neither show any evidence of pendulums associated with the Merseburg wheel ..

p. Pendulum for use when machine is to be operated slowly.

This quote is also from DT and relates to the Kassel wheel which shows the water screw in operation ..


Where and what is your quote - November 1717 - Pamphlet published by Bessler (Kassel):

- from PMV 98 ?

[daxwc]

Sorry guys not blaming anyone. I think a newspaper. Also there is somewhere during the long test it talks about taking the pendulums off prior to it getting moved for the long test. It seems to me it is only added only during the stone box lifting. I assume so it doesn't stall.

Ps : Hmmm... it says pamphlet. I think JC has a copy of this? It is made out in third person even though he published it.

[Tarsier79]

It is possible the pamphlet is only a news article based on the engraving showing the pendulums.

[Robinhood46]

A wheel is a dead object and it has no life and on its own we would never expect it to continue rotating. It isn't so difficult to imagine a wheel that has the ability to power itself as having a life of its own almost like a living thing. In a way its even a little spooky because its not supposed to happen.

This is exactly the sort thing i was referring to in another thread when i said that we only have our perception of reality to work with, and not reality itself.
"a little spooky because its not supposed to happen. "
If it is not supposed to happen, it wont.
If it is supposed to happen, and it does, there is nothing spooky about it.
It is only our perception that makes it spooky.
There is nothing special, majestical, divine or "spooky" about the moon's interaction with the earth, it behaves in the manner it does, because it is supposed to, and when someone finally solves this puzzle, their wheel will do exactly what it is supposed to too.
The only spooky thing about this, is how the hell did we manage to convince ourself that it was impossible.

[Roxaway59]

I must admit the last few posts have forced me to raise one of my eye brows. The other one thought about it but decided to stay where it was. Lets just work together and find answers.
Graham

[daxwc]

"Also there is somewhere during the long test it talks about taking the pendulums off prior to it getting moved for the long test." - I said this but I couldn't find evidence of it. Maybe my memory is wrong.

[John Collins]

I’m not aware of such a comment and I’m sure I would remember, but I’ll check my data banks, (cupboard) and if I find something relevant, I’ll post it here.

JC

[Roxaway59]

I will be posting some video in an hour or so of how my wheel is at the moment. Over the next few days I will be modifying it to see if I can get it running better. In the mean time here are some photos.

[Roxaway59]

This first one shows the wheel moving better with the correct movement of the mechanisms and you can hear them operating.
Graham
https://youtu.be/dAWzmby7zas

[Roxaway59]

Here is a close up of the stops to limit movement.
Graham
https://youtu.be/i0dYChBh9KE