Zeroing in on Bessler's wheel

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi Robinhood 46, Thanks. I just can't do it, I won't Reff. the back pages again-------Sam

[nebollinger]

I have found a method to easily increase leverage and cause rotation and then easily remove that leverage and cause a reset. It would best be used for reciprocal work out as in the old hand water pump at a well. The discussion is here

http://www.energeticforum.com/forum/ene ... mallaradet

As you can see I took the original idea and saw the reset was problematic and enhanced that idea with leverage/rotation.

Norman

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi Norman,
The all any one can do is to try it. I don't think it will work, if you will forgive me for saying so-----------------Sam

Some how the weights have to drive the wheel. My feeling is, the wheel would end up driving the weights.

[spinner361]

@Sam Peppiatt: It is okay if you reference backpages. I was just trying to make a helpful suggestion. I did not want to make you feel shame. I was not upset with you or anything like that. I am sorry for causing you frustration. You are fine exactly the way that you are.

[Sam Peppiatt]

spinner361, OK-------------Sam

[Sam Peppiatt]

The 'Five" components of a gravity wheel.
A pair of rollers to lift the weights, a pair of rollers to drive the wheel, cross bars to connect the rollers, a toggle link to connect the cross bars and, last but not least, an anti roll device to prevent back torque.

What's the likely hood of it working? Probably none, right-----------------Sam

[Sam Peppiatt]

To anyone who is good at sim's.
The big draw back to a gravity wheel, even a working gravity wheel, is the slowness of it. What if you drove a set of binary rollers with an electric motor, (on the simulator), what would happen? My idea is; the motor would turn the rollers but, the weight of them / gravity would do the work of turning the wheel.

I asked this question before; jb, was sure that it would never work. Could it be verified with a sim--------------Sam

[Fletcher]

It probably can be simmed Sam .. and many of us would like to help you out as we've stated before - but not one of us, but you, knows exactly what your mechanical arrangements are and we'd just be guessing again .. that's why my guess people aren't commenting on your mechanics, which you interpret as lack of interest (far from it I think) ..

A few times you've said you'd get your grandson to load a photo, but this hasn't happened - it could be very helpful to us, and you, to find a relative, friend, enemy, or neighbour, anyone who can help you take and load up photo's and/or drawings etc - then the members can see what you are specifically talking to .. and from there think about how to discuss and assist you from there, once the exact details are known ..

I am assuming that if you could you would provide photo's or pics etc - there are a few members who are only days away who provide commentary only, as is their deliberate choice ..

JMO's ..

[SHADOW]

Bonjour Sam!
Est-ce toujours la base de votre conception?

Hi Sam!
Is this still the basis of your design?

[Sam Peppiatt]

Fletcher,
Yes, my grandson was here but, when he left home, he went off without his I pad, so no pictures. But back to the sim question. When you were talking to Mr. Viberating, you mentioned electric motors, electric motors on the simulator. At least I thought so anyway.

Going back about a year, maybe about last January you made several sim's of a wheel with three rings and three rollers, if you remember. It wouldn't have to be three, two would work just as good, if it would be easier. If I use gravity to turn the rollers, the wheel would turn very slow, maybe 40 rpm, or less.

It occurred to me; what if the rollers were turned with an electric motor? They could rotate much faster say maybe 600 rpm or what ever, that way, the wheel would have a lot more power. My idea was to have an electric motor, if possible, on the simulator, to drive each heavy roller. What would happen? Would the weight of the rollers help turn the wheel? jb says no, and maybe he's right. Could the simulator verify this.

I think it would be fairly simple, two rings, two heavy rollers and, two motors driving the two rollers; for a simulator that is. To try to build it would be very difficult and might not work anyway---------------Sam

ETA, It would NOT be the same as what I'm building. I'm trying to everything with gravity, no electric motors.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Yes SHADOW!!!!!!! That's the guts of it-------------------Sam

ETA, Thanks for rolling that ahead for me. They lift and lower each other twice per revolution.

[Fletcher]

Hey Sam .. I will sim that for you later today or tonight - under the pump here ..

Motors are easy to add - what I may do is show 2 sims side by side for comparison - one with 2 motors turning the 2 rollers, and another with 1 motor turning the background disk/wheel and the rollers free-wheeling ..

[Sam Peppiatt]

Fletcher,
Oh-------OK. Maybe that's a good idea. I must admit, I don't know what there capabilities are. Again, I was thinking that the motors would give the wheel a lot more speed, then gravity would provide the torque. The wheel would then have more power than the motors by them selves. Probably not, however that was the question--------------Sam

ETA I have a bad feeling that jb is right. If you put a load on the wheel it would just slow down.

[Fletcher]

Here are animations of 2 sims ..

N.B. I didn't use 2 motors in the first sim driving the rollers as requested because motors are pinned to whatever background there is - in this case the disk behind .. so I swapped them out for the torque element set at -2 N-m - that way the rollers can move around inside the drums etc .. you can see that there is a lot of slippage as the rollers are forced to turn, and not much grip .. watch the system COM icon and the rollers positions inside the drums etc ..

In the second sim I did use a single axle motor set to -30 RPM - so the disk rotates and the rollers are free to rotate inside their drums - once again watch the roller move around inside their drums and the system COM location etc ..

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[Sam Peppiatt]

Looks like it's not going to work. Thanks Fletcher; thanks for trying it out. I still don't know if jb is right but; he must be-----------Sam