If Bessler made the wheel work - what energies were used

[Tarsier79]

I believe Overunnity.com was sold and now no longer operates. It looks like the date is Nov 16.

If Tom acted like a normal human being, people would tolerate him. He wasn't banned from here, he just left. I suspect the same happens on other forums.

The thing I do like about Tom, he is not a scammer. He truly believes what he preaches.

[magnagravity]

Hi Tarsier79 - I truly believe what I am saying is true - and if anyone would take the time to see for themselves they also would believe the way I do, If someone said they could make fire by rubbing a stick on a book, you would laugh, and say this can not be done
but if they said - come and see for yourself - and you did not - this means you disbelieved in this concept understanding you are right without the proof, I am acting in a way to present a concept to humans - but the humans I am presenting this to - What do they act like?

coming back to the book and the stick making fire, Have you ever heard of a book of matches?

if interested and if you are of the humans are described, the last post by magnagravity on the Grease power - thread
Shows the concept of the forces used to convert to energy of 3 different energies that could have been used in 1700 by Bessler
This describes the simple details of one method that could be workable - if engineered correctly to the size and designs of the drawings
shown of the Bessler Wheel - Note: As I am mostly human - I can act mostly human - I am only a mirror reflection of who I talk with
Whatever they are I reflect back to them and they view themselves, Something to consider when reading my return comments.
this is why I now pick and chose to return comments. People tend to be repulsed by their own reflection of who they are.

Again: Seeing for yourself is better than not knowing the truth, and assuming it is false using the lack of knowledge as the bases of what your telling others what you believe is the truth. Preaching as it were to them what you wish them to believe on the bases of the lack of information to the truth. ( this is the concept of what forums do ) from the viewpoint of a mostly human perspective.

And you are incorrect, I get banned from forums just like this, mostly because I present an offer to see working technology
I am attacked by people from the forum just like what happen on this forum - because I presented an offer to see working technology
What is this forum about - finding somebody that may have a solution to how the Bessler wheel may have worked - YES -
How many people have been attacked because they offer a solution to how the Bessler wheel may have worked - bullied of this forum -
And say I hope he is gone now for good - wow humans - OK

Hopefully - The descriptions that were left behind that are from the 1700's technology are somewhat understandable to you humans as it were,

And yes, many times I go from these contacts with humans as it were, because I find it somewhat - Well: pick your friends wisely because you may become like they are.

Thanks, aka Legion, for I am many,

[Fletcher]

Here you go Tom - I've put your thoughts into your thread so they are in one place and have continuity and context ..

if interested and if you are of the humans are described, the last post by magnagravity on the Grease power - thread
Shows the concept of the forces used to convert to energy of 3 different energies that could have been used in 1700 by Bessler

This describes the simple details of one method that could be workable - if engineered correctly to the size and designs of the drawings
shown of the Bessler Wheel

Hello, Sorry if I seemed rude, I never got a chance to say the third energy - Well the whole string of what bessler used for his energy source was an incorrect way of presenting what bessler used to power his wheel device ( Was NON-Energy )

How I presented it to John Collins was in steps - I do not have that letter any more so I will try to follow the same as before. Note: This is only based on the drawing made showing the Bessler Wheel made in 1717 - I think - I found it on the internet -

#1 The wheel is 12 feet in diameter and about 10 inches thick - just guessing from the drawing - There is a shaft the runs threw the center of the wheel - one end of the shaft has a rope rapped about 8 times and a box of weight on pulleys

#2 on the other end of the shaft there is a box with 4 geared rods with numbers of 5 5 6 6 - what this shows is the wheel can not run one direction pasted 21 turns - it must reverse direction and turn backward for no more than 21 turns - Back and forth only -

#3 Primary source of power is Gravity - Note: in Physics Gravity is not termed energy it is - Non-energy - but making energy out of force - ( inside the wheel is a 2 part weights that can move back and forth that is geared to the shaft in a way that turns the shaft by
Centrifugal Force -- As the rope turn the wheel the weights inside the wheel are moved from the inner part of the wheel to the outer part of the wheel inside the wheel - Note: the faster the wheel turns the more Centrifugal force is produced - The speed of the Centrifugal Force can produce a much greater force than gravity making it possible to turn the shaft to lift the weight 1 full turn making the rapped shaft start with 8 turns and have 9 turns on the first 1/2 cycle of the wheel Giving a 1.125 over power ratio factor using gravity - converting Centrifugal Force into lifting the weight higher than it started form --- The Spring --- is also turned to a higher torque of 1 turn by the same Centrifugal Force Weights inside the Wheel ---

#4 Once the Wheel make the full cycle it comes to a stop - This is very important -- because the Centrifugal Force is no longer there - The spring that is inside the wheel hooked to the shaft and the wheel -- now turn backward - moving the weights inward and rotating the shaft and lifting the weight making the return travel from 8 turns to 9 turns making a 1.125 over power ratio factor

It is easy to do a demo of the centrifugal force -- get a string put equal weights on each end of the string - hang one end through your fingers the other end spin, once it spins fast enough the centrifugal force will lift the hanging one through your fingers Showing the gravity is over come by the centrifugal force -- this method could be reproduce inside the bessler wheel design --

If you understand this concept you can understand that if bessler used the method: The wheel totally worked,

I just thought you would may find this interesting, There are more that likely many of options that will not work, maybe this one may work, ( it works in my Head ) What more do you need?

By the way keep this to yourself, you would not want to be in my shoes. Tom Wlazlak aks magnagravity aka Mr. Tom aka EttCM aka Dr. Wlazlak aka The unknown comic. ps. I have lots of drawing and things but can not put them on this forum - the dam thing don't work for me.

If you would like to see some of my drawings and work, visit - Magnet Universe forum - you will find them there - not me of course -
just things left behind. Fun Stuff

Thank you for your efforts to solving the Bessler Wheel mystery ..

I think many members reading your thoughts will be a little perplexed because your 'must reverse direction' theory seems at odds with the witness statements of the various wheels in action, and the written and signed testimonials about various tests they were subjected to ..

B. had 2 earlier one-directional prototype wheels in Gera and Draschwitz - they were thoroughly tested in public - his later wheels were designed to be bi-directional because of various theories that they could be spring wound like a clock etc ..

Additionally these wheels were subjected to long running tests for the same reason - if we take the Draschwitz wheel which reportedly rotated at 50 rpm and got up to speed in a few turns, then 21 turns would happen in about 30 seconds give or take ..

His later wheels did 40 rpm and 26 rpm and did lifting tests over 2 stories tho quiet slowly because off being geared down at a 4 to 1 ratio altho the rpm did not diminish ..

And his last Kassel wheel was locked away for 54 days after being observed keeping its rotation rate and then via a water screw test continuously lift water at 20 rpm, until it was disconnected and locked away in the guarded room for that 54 days ..

Let's see what others have to say - perhaps there is a shortcoming in these testimonials and witness statements and they failed to notice them abruptly slowing down and coming to a stop before reversing direction ..

[Tarsier79]

Tom. When dealing with "humans", it helps to speak to them as equals. You probably don't mean it, but you don't exist on a higher plane. We are not your servants or worshipers.

Also, when you walk into a community of very experienced and diverse knowledgeable people, who generally respect each-other, you probably shouldn't tell them or infer they are idiots.

Enough.... Moving on:

Centrifugal/ centripetal force /inertia isn't new here. Some here don't agree with my viewpoint, but I believe we need an excess, and I don't care where we get that from. That means that using any combination of forces requires at least one of them to give us that advantage.


https://www.khanacademy.org/science/phy ... etal-force

So for the above, what is specifically required: The force x distance of "m2" has to be more than the kinetic energy lost by "m1"....that should be easy to measure, right?

[agor95]

Hello Tom

I should have said Welcome to the site. Members here have suffered some rudeness in their time when using forums; even here.

I find using the ignore option works for they can be as rude as they like to me.
After a while good members call them out because they do not want too read posts which contain bile.

We do have a few who do not show other researchers new to the site some slack.
By the way what ever you do never say you are '1/2 Norwegian'. We have a person suck like a broken record on a yesterday track.
When he pops up he bangs on about the past and not on the present and future projects.

So I recommend filtering out some people you deem rude with the ignore option.
Keep to the present and current posts and we can build from there.

No one can change the past. But we can repeat useful information from the past.

Regards

[agor95]

Why do I get the feeling that I've heard all of this Bull Sh*t before, from a doctor. Yea, that was it, a Dr. Wlazlak----------------Sam

I find Tom has put forward an affect that is not BS as you put it.

Granted it is berried in a lot of baggage of passed perceived mistreatments text. But it is there to see.

Regards

[agor95]

Hi Tarsier79

...
Enough.... Moving on:

Centrifugal/ centripetal force /inertia isn't new here.
...
That means that using any combination of forces requires at least one of them to give us that advantage.

I think Tom and myself agree with you. I believe Tom states at least two inputs are required.
It is the interaction of two or more inputs than can be used to create an effect.

Centrifugal [ Or a mass moving linearly and being subjected to a centripetal force ] is tricky to used in a rotating wheel frame.
With the other input being gravity you start having to look at how these two interact.

Regards

[Tarsier79]

But.... We know how gravity acts. It gives us a specific amount of energy to use.

The 3 systems proposed are gravity, spring and CF.

Gravity: 100% - losses
Spring: < 100%
CF....

Combining any set of mechanisms that are less than 100% are not going to give you OU.

[magnagravity]

Thank you, lesser, not smarter, I am sorry, moving on - that's what I use, I am sorry when people comment without and on the subjects of off topics in order to confuse and draw into gang rude thinking - I prefer to talk to a child on technology because they have not created a viewpoint where they wish to stop information before learning and thinking what may be something to confuse other in believing.
As for mostly human, the reflections I present to others of the humanity is somewhat in question. therefore what is human of me is mostly what is presented to be by others in their own humanity. does that make sense?

getting on with the real what if, Centrifugal force, There is no engineering symbol for Centrifugal force - however Bessler has a drawing of 2 balls on 2 strings that look like a W somewhat - There is a 2 as the number on the wheel as the part number -

I have done Thousands of Engineering drawings and designed hundreds of industrial equipment applications that have gone all over the world. I have worked on nuclear sights installing equipment, designed by Me. I have a little background in things.
( I also use this method of parts numbers as clues of what the design is to the part number on the part ) - giving clues but I only know what they really mean. Bessler was an Engineer - makes me wonder - like minds maybe..

There is a device called a Centrifugal force clutch use on small gas engines where at an rpm the clutch engages and turns an output to something else from the motor - The centrifugal force is many times that of gravity - using on spinning motion to apply force enough to grab metal to metal in equal force to the motors output hp.

Gravity is 32 feet per second a 12 foot wheel turning at 60 rpms is 1 turn a second a wheel 10 foot in diameter would be turning 31.4 feet in 1 second - if there were 2 weights inside the wheel that weighed 200 lbs moving out at 1 gravity would produce 400 lift lbs of force
if the weight producing the energy to rotate this effect is 1 gravity at 100 lbs -
there is a very good chance the 400 lbs moving 1 foot will lift 100 lbs 1 foot plus compress a spring to lift 100 lbs backward once the Centrifugal force has stopped - the spring then lifts backward 100 lbs 1 foot plus resets the 2 balanced weights inside the wheel toward the center for the return rotation of 1 turn over the start amount being 16 turns makes 18 full turns of the wheel giving a 1.125 over ration amount for each forward and reverse rotation of the wheel

It is a simple test - put 2 weight on a disk that weighs 2 times the weight of the drop weight that turns the disk on a shaft that will turn
the disk by a string rapped around a shaft 8 turns The shaft must by thin as if shows on the bessler wheel
measure the pull power of the 2 weights as the disk turns to see if the amount of force is greater that the weight it take to spin the disk.
from the weight dropping from turning the shaft
A simple test -

Or stay lesser, not smarter - in not doing a simple test - it is not being rude to say the truth - it is rude to present the faults and push it as the truth on others - I do not do that - I have no need to do that - If you think I am being less than human in trying to push something true on people that don't want the truth. then yes: I am less then human. -- mostly less --- nothing is ever 100 percent total all
that's what makes us human. mistakes -
I have put about 90,000 hours into making mistakes - I'm invested into what I am doing - more that most people could understand -
think about what is 90,000 hours in your life. doing one thing. thinking about how to make this work, This is on my own,
I have never asked for donations, money, in fact I have built and sent at my expense part to people that could not built testing items themselves.
And how many people do you know that would build a house for a friend and take full care of them for a year and a half at not charge
I did that for my wife's 95 year old friend - he has passed now - so we use the house as a play house on the garden the video way done
from that house. fun Stuff

People judge me, as being holyer than thou, but do what I am doing - put yourself in my shoes -
I am trying to stop the people from causing themselves to end themselves, Because they can not see the end coming very soon.
There was a guy named Noah that was saying the same thing, and the people did not listen and made fun of his Ark. device.
They found that sometimes when people say something is comes true. one way or another.

Thanks agor95 for being human with me. and thank you for welcoming me. ( almost spring, I am building some new building for the garden soon. if I seem to vanish, it has nothing to do with forum fixtures - I just have a lot other things going on - )

Thanks Din-ma Tom -- by the way Din-ma - means - may you go with God on the road in peace. or something close to that.
I'm not what people think, They make me what they think I am. ( I call it, telling stories )

[Tarsier79]

Thank you, lesser, not smarter, I am sorry, moving on - that's what I use, I am sorry when people comment without and on the subjects of off topics in order to confuse and draw into gang rude thinking - I prefer to talk to a child on technology because they have not created a viewpoint where they wish to stop information before learning and thinking what may be something to confuse other in believing.

You prefer to speak to a child because a child is easy to confuse and bewilder. I do not want to stop learning. I think learning is a good thing, unless it is learning hogwash.

There is a device called a Centrifugal force clutch use on small gas engines

Again...not idiots. Most of us have seen them and know how they work. They have appeared on this forum from time to time.

It is a simple test - put 2 weight on a disk th...

^^^

what is specifically required: The force x distance of "m2" has to be more than the kinetic energy lost by "m1"....

No-one is questioning how much force can be produced. The amount of force by itself tells us nothing. What is required is force x distance. Energy lost vs energy gained.

[magnagravity]

Thank you, Again, hostile, hostile,
what I am presenting is happy, happy, thoughts,
Being hostile, hostile, is not happy, happy, thoughts,
Why not let people think for themselves, in place of presenting them with to option of being hostile, hostile - if you can not say something
nice - Please do not say anything at all - Please I am only here to present the ones that wish to have happy thoughts.
What I have found is people say things about others that are in fact they themselves -
So: with that in mind what did you say my views on giving a child a chance to learn? don't assume others are like you?

din-ma Tom

[Orreus]

Thank you, lesser, not smarter, I am sorry, moving on - that's what I use, I am sorry when people comment without and on the subjects of off topics in order to confuse and draw into gang rude thinking - I prefer to talk to a child on technology because they have not created a viewpoint where they wish to stop information before learning and thinking what may be something to confuse other in believing.

You prefer to speak to a child because a child is easy to confuse and bewilder. I do not want to stop learning. I think learning is a good thing, unless it is learning hogwash.

Sadly Tarsier most of the people in here have no understanding of Bessler's clues. If you consider who has builds to show and who hears "failed builds",
that I think shows the mentality in here. That's where if my build is successful then the media will be able to ask what the purpose of this forum is.
In this drawing of Bessler's, 2 guys hammering away. What could it mean? Does the head of the hammer move away as the wheel rotates? It does!
That's what my build does, it has the "hammer" moving away from the axle as the wheel rotates. C is the wheel rotating clockwise and D is the wheel rotating counterclockwise. And when the hammer is lifted so is its weight.
People will be wondering why actually working at Bessler's Wheel is a violation of forum rules.

I think when Doc Brown and Marty McFly were on Jimmy Kimmel in 2015 because they traveled to the "future", and what they came up with is that
smart devices like your computer are for entertainment and not for doing something useful or practical.
https://www . youtube . com/watch?v=Q0VGRlEJewA&t=70s

And if I wasn't hated then you'd find out what I didn't say. But I'll be attacked because?

[magnagravity]

hello Orreus - my friend, I starting in 1969 on thinking how gravity was used in the Besssler wheel project
I have not studied many of the clues from bessler because how many clues are dead ends designed to fool the fools.
what I did was studied Engineering of Physics to how the Physics of Gravity worked in many - many tests
also I listened to people - that is the best way of learning - but also researching the truth of what was said by the people -
Making up what was the real truth is not what people say is the truth. Old - Books, not the internet, where the truth is altered.
The clues of the drawing of the anvil present an interesting concept of the size of the people in relationship to the location in depth
in distance if you count the rotations of the rope around the shaft it is 9 if the count the diamonds shapes there are 9 high starting at the half bottom - notice they cross back and forth - one way is clockwise and the other is counter clockwise - maybe - clues are fun -
there is a clue children playing with clubs and rods swinging around - or something that - Centrifugal Force ? -
when I was young I would tie a rock on a rope and spin to see how much pull it could take to pull it out of my hands. Centrifugal Force.

in 1700's what did Bessler have to work with for and energy source
1 - Gravity
2 - storage of energy in a spring
3 - centrifugal force
as power sources that can run on its own source of energy 1700 - if it worked what else was there - if it did not work it does not matter -

So how many options are there for that drawing of the anvil of energy used for 1700"s - making the view as workable -

Or simply apply the possible options to the engineering of a device that would work by the use of energies from 1700
and apply them to Your own design, seeing how bessler did not want you to know how his design was build to work.
I only say this because hundred of thousands of hours have gone into studies of the clues and none have produced a working system form the clues. therefore: the clues are a dead end: and bessler gets to laugh from the grave at people following his very good presentation of
Clues - having people jump through the hoops of his brilliance in creating an unsolvable change of clues that seem to make sense but
Wow - fun Stuff - what did I say, lesser, not smart, sorry about that, time to move on,
I love this guy Bessler - the never ending story -

for everyone that is now still interested in solving the clues of Bessler wheel - Good luck - I think his is smarter than you think -
What is the sound of laughing in Dutch - I speak the language - it sounds the same to me -

This is all in fun - please don't take it as any more than a good time for the ones that want to have fun in trying to solving this funny bessler engineering wheel of mystery

Even if it is solved - what does it change on this planet - Top news story - new bubble gum flavor - nothing else mentioned in the news today. ( it changed noting outside this forum )

Mostly knowing it can be done is all that it is worth to everyone that is interested, the rest of the world could care less. really.

So: moving on - Yes / no ???? ( wait the phone just rang - maybe it's the President ? ) No just somebody wanting to sell me a new free energy idea he found on the internet.

din-ma --- MG - we have got to stop meeting on this forum like this - I got blisters on my fingers -

[agor95]

Hello Tom

I been giving your key points of your motor some time to sink in.

It does put a requirement on both Besslers wheel.

That being a motor needs to produces work in the form of a sustained output torque.

The rating is tested for by loading the motor with back torque until it almost stops.

There are observational records for the Bessler Wheel. One would hope you have done an equivalent test.

P.S. Has anyone actually seen a signed document of Bessler's 54 day test? Or is this just hearsay.

Regards

[magnagravity]

Hello agor95
The prototype test motor that you are refer to is a permanent magnetic powered device
it uses electrical power input to shift the permanent magnetic force from one location to another
the electrical power does not produce any of the output power that is produced to ( torque in motion ) torque is normally measured in a non moving device under some form of pressure load. But because the EttCM said Energy to torque Conversion Motor or E = CM
E = C -- that means -- Speed, time, distance, * weight or Mass - this is the normal formula for energy of horsepower or watts
the engineering term change in different ways showing the same letter for different types of actions. - they all work - I think it is made up as different people made up their own version of the letters equal formula's in whatever use is required - W,E,P all mean the same thing.
but in different formula's all mean different things. so C means , Speed, time, distance, in place of the speed of light , where 186,000 miles per second is the same as - speed, time and distance - This gives the formula for how the EttCM motor is rated for the output force in watts
Note: this prototype testing motor is for showing how the EttCM Coil that produce an effect of producing about 7 times more force pull than a normal iron core coil does - this is All this test motor is for - Testing how the EttCM coil performs in a motor type device.
Many people have missed that part of the experiment of what I am showing,
It is not called Perpetual motion or Overunity - It does not apply to either of those term or free energy it is not free energy

How the motor is tested to show the output - The bearings have friction - using this friction of the bearing at test can be made turning the shaft of the motor with a string rapped around the shaft - pulling the string - under no power input - and seeing what the pound pull is at a constant speed once moving. the shaft has a 1/2 inch diameter that the string is rapped

how many pound can a 1 horsepower motor lift: 550 pounds 1 foot in 1 minute
if the motor is running at 1800 rpms -- that is 1800 feet per minute - 550 pounds a minute / 1800 = .30556 pounds lifted 1800 feet in one minute

So: pulling the test motor the friction of the bearing is about .28 pounds

using the same formula if the maximum speed of the test motor is 600 rpm's note the bearing friction puts a load of what would be the same as lifting a pounds load at whatever the maximum rpm can produce - can't do anymore that is the lift output -

So: 600 times .28 = that is 168 pounds lifted 1 foot in one minute --- 168 / 550 = .3055 that is the horsepower at 600 rpm's
to get how many watts is 745.6 watts is 1 hp. times the horsepower .3055 = 227.8 watts output
This has also been confirmed by another test done with a drill motor running the motor at 600 rpm's showing the same pull rating of
.28 pound pull load under movement in torque - it is always good to test several ways to prove things are the same ratings

and the input is about 75 watts that is what the power supply is showing and putting into the motor at 600 rpm's running speed.

all the test have a little different input watts to output watts but stay within the 3 to 1 output rating

The technology is the EttCM coil that is based on the EttCM permanent magnetic Rotor that is for a non-electric motor system
based on Gravity inputs of a non-electric motor type device
Based on the magnagravity test motor from 2001 that is a non-electric permanent magnetic power motor device.
based on the research of the Bessler wheel gravity system from 1968

The End - Thanks Tom