Besslers prime mover and its enabler.

[Fletcher]

We do need to try something different granted - and speaking for myself I nearly always learn something new and potentially of value with sims and then real-world experiments of ideas, which is a kind of payoff for me .. I like icing on my cake - I got a sweet tooth :7) - maybe you can get to taste it .. enjoy the stimulation of thinking of new ideas and the process of discovery ..

[Roxaway59]

There is a fair bit of talk taking place on the forum at the moment about something I have been wanting to bring up further down the line but seeing as its being posted about a lot I might as well do it now.

Years ago I noticed a lot of people showing these all magnet motor / generators on places like You Tube. I didn’t know what to make of them and a great deal of money and effort had gone in to making them so I decided to get the popcorn out and sit back and see what was going to happen.

If I read the comments that people posted on the videos they very often would say things like yes these work but only as long as the magnets remain magnetized and that they would very quickly demagnetize so the generators are useless.

Not knowing much about it I didn’t know what to think. I’m pretty sure though that back then I also read something to that effect on Wikipedia. Can anyone back me up on that or did I imagine that? Anyway the reason I say that is because the last time I looked at Wikipedia which by the way is mainly run now by the CIA it said that these generators do not work and they are basically a scam.

This is a surprise to me because I must admit I thought that they did work if only for a short time. I should also add that I didn’t really buy this idea that the magnets becoming demagnetized was the main problem. It doesn’t really take vast amounts of energy to make a magnet and those generators looked pretty powerful to me.

So can I ask the forum do these all magnet motor / generators work yes or no? Anyone who has firm proof that they do work should inform the CIA, sorry Wikipedia.

So that brings us to Bessler. The only magnets around back then were lodestones. We do have to ask the very important question. If it is possible and provable to make a working all magnet motor / generator, is this possibly what Bessler actually did and was the first to do so?

Lastly I would like to make the connection between all magnet motor / generators and gyroscopes. Invariably with the all magnet motor / generators the need to make them reaction-less crops up so that thrust is only taking place in one direction. Oddly enough that is precisely how Professor Eric Laithwaite described the gyroscopic propulsion he was working on.
Graham

[Tarsier79]

I believe Bessler did have some lodestones in the inventory of his death, but I could be wrong.

I do not think Bessler used lodestones, but again...

IMO, the argument of magnetism reducing in magnets is from scientists trying to explain why they work. IE, energy comes from somewhere, it must come from the magnets themselves, and therefor it must decrease as power is used...

Alternators, generators and motors containing magnets still work from the 50s. So I agree with you. magnetism does reduce over time, but has nothing to do with how much a magnet motor pulls energy from it.

Lastly, I do not believe any of the motors shown worked. If any did, the workings were kept secret. There were scammers then, just as there are now. (I also did a bit of magnet research and testing. Also, it doesn't help that google and youtube are broken. The results you get from searches are based on what is financially beneficial for you to watch.

[Roxaway59]

Yes I'm pretty sure he did too. As far as I am aware he only mentioned magnets once or twice. Magnet motors do go way back and apparently for them to work they have to be precisely made. I never make anything precise so I don't stand a chance. There is some information out there but I don't know what to make of it.
Graham

[johannesbender]

Personally i disregard anything non mechanical because he said its true mechanical etc .

Imo magnet powered motors are just fakes , you can believe power and motor companies would jump on it in an instant , just take a look at how fast knock off duplicates are manufactured of famous products and how quick people patent same things with improvements too .

[agor95]

Hi Roxaway59

There is a fair bit of talk taking place on the forum at the moment about something I have been wanting to bring up further down the line but seeing as its being posted about a lot I might as well do it now.

I also had interest in this development and watched the videos.

I think it is best to keep an open mind and not go binary on the subject.

A device that rotates because the permanent magnets are force into place to create rotation is one thing.

The point is the level of force they are subjected to in their use.

If a person design a device using springs then putting more stress on them would go beyond their tensile limit.

So I propose a modest permanent magnet rotor that used the torque supplied to rotate in a modest rate could run within it's limit.
These units could be mechanically combined to increase the total torque for later gearing.

The other element is holding the atom or molecule in a lattice so their orientation is reserved.
Also the magnetic property is related to an electrons spin orientation so there is another limit.

Regards

[Roxaway59]

Hi agor95, can you read this story and let me know what you think.
http://blog.hasslberger.com/2013/11/ger ... rmane.html

Graham

[Fletcher]

Yes I'm pretty sure he did too. As far as I am aware he only mentioned magnets once or twice. Magnet motors do go way back and apparently for them to work they have to be precisely made. I never make anything precise so I don't stand a chance. There is some information out there but I don't know what to make of it.
Graham

Hi Rox .. what is considered the first electric motor was a Faraday apparatus in 1822 -> converts electrical energy into mechanical energy .. perhaps you were thinking of the first batteries ?

Voltaic pile battery - 1800

Leiden Jar - capacitor or condenser 1745

Baghdad Battery circa 2,000 years old ..

The Egyptians and Greeks etc had used them for electroplating gold IIRC ..

Loadstones were known for eons ..

Personally, for the same reason as jb, I think B. had a purely mechanical PM wheel, and it had no early type of battery and electric motor apparatus, imo ..

[Roxaway59]

Hi Fletcher, I'm not really thinking he did that either although I'm not ruling anything out. We have to stick with what is actually possible and because I'm not sure about these motors I cant rule it out yet. I'm also thinking that if the motors did work there could be a mechanical equivalent. Please read the article on the link and tell me what you think.
Graham

[Roxaway59]

That inventor felt that the energy came from the atoms.
Graham

[Roxaway59]

The other thing I couldn't help noticing is the watch makers lathe. Where have I seen that wheel before?
Graham

[Fletcher]

Hey Rox .. I've read it before and I've just read it again now - it was a hot topic over at OU.com many years ago - the experts there, and they were, all said the same thing we say now .. force is NOT Energy - force x displacement/distance IS Equivalent to Energy, under WEEP ..

Therefore for anybody in the inventors shoes take your output and turn a generator - generate some voltage and current and charge a battery thru an inverter if required - then connect in this case the "mirror" motor to your battery supply to make it turn - monitor the battery charge over weeks and months if necessary - Just TWO Questions - did the battery fully charge up ? - and is it still fully charged up ?

It's called "closing the (energy) loop" and it is surprising the number of reasons people apparently can't get around to it - like waiting for paint to dry and I lost my inverter ..

VERY EASY for them to prove their claims .. and have it independently validated and replicated ..

[mickegg]

Have a look at the Wesley Gary motor. 1879

I haven't had a try at replicating this one, but it does seem quite plausible.
Date wise it probably preceeds the scammers!

Regards

Mick

[thx4]

http://quanthomme.free.fr/qhsuite/2005N ... 070705.htm

You can't make a purely magnetic motor without an effective magnetic filter, which is not yet available on earth. Waste of time guaranteed.
After Albert Michel's death, a patron of the arts came to his widow and offered her a large sum of money in the presence of a notary if she would give him the list of products used by her husband, which she did...
A few years later, the patron got in touch with me (I was a well-known prototypist in this field), but because of the mercury, I gave up the experiment. The patron was no longer with us, so I kept the recipe, but without conviction.

Otherwise you have Bernardo with whom I communicate from time to time, he doesn't believe in what I do on Bessler and I don't believe in what he does with magnets😉 either.

https://youtu.be/hdo-hu7vKvw?si=ysKlgSOVlLA1TA1X

[johannesbender]

As far as for Bessler I don't believe he used anything other than mechanical mechanisms , but there are people out there experimenting with magnets , and of course why not , I have seen many videos of people trying to use magnetic accelerators (a row of magnets that typically boosts a metal ball) trying to get them to continuously work on their own with tracks etc , and there are many who claim to have a working wheel or some device that uses magnets to keep it in motion .

I just never have taken any of it serious enough to have a deeper look at magnets as a driving force , i tend to stick to mechanical ideas , but there are some effects of magnets I like because they can behave quite strange and its always fascinating to see something behave strange , for instance Lenz Law which is usually demonstrated with a magnet dropped down a copper tube/pipe , levitating magnets etc...

https://youtu.be/sENgdSF8ppA
https://youtu.be/N7tIi71-AjA
https://youtu.be/fdoLXChlJ_4
https://youtu.be/7qbm4pJqnu0